Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 00:31:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Graham To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL Beginning Coptic (LONG) Hello, I know that there are people here who would be interested in the subject of the Coptic language, especially as it relates to earlier Egyptian. Mark has suggested that from time to time, I post something which might help people get started in Coptic, if they so desire. Bently Layton, here at Yale, is in the process of producing a new Coptic Reference Grammar which will probably become the new standard textbook for beginning Coptic, however, that opus is not yet finished. Until such time as it is, I would suggest to any of you who are interested in pursuing this, the last stage of the Egyptian language, that you begin with Thomas Lambdin's _Introduction to Sahidic Coptic_, Macon: Mercer University Press, 1983. It is probably not in print anymore, but it can most likely be located in libraries. For dictionaries, there are: W.E. Crum's extensive _A Coptic Dictionary_ which has everything that you might need, but is very large and may no longer be available, and Richard Smith's _A Concise Coptic-English Lexicon_, Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1983, which is a nice small alphabetically orgnised vocabulary list which can get you started. Meanwhile, let me first introduce the Coptic Alphabet (yes it is an alphabet, much easier than ancient Egyptian!) and the pertinent phonology: The Coptic Alphabet was borrowed from Classical Greek, at some time before the development of Koine Greek, although the records of its early development have not yet been found. This means that the phonology of Coptic's usage of the Greek alphabet reflects the kind of Greek spoken about 200 BC, rather than the period at which Coptic seems to first appear in our records, about 200 AD! \ / \ / \ (___/ \ "alpha" /a/ like {a} in English "father" ____ | \ |___/ | \ |____/ "vita" /b/ alternating with /v/, much like {b} in Spanish _______ | | / / | "gamma" /g/ a sound not native to Egyptian or Coptic, and generally used in words of Greek origin, or where /k/ was close to a nasal sound ( \ / \ / \ / \ ----------- "dalda" /d/ a sound not native to Egyptian of Coptic, and generally used in words of Greek Origin, or where /t/ was close to a nasal sound _____ / |_______ | \______ "Epsilon" /e/ a sound somewhere between English {e} in "pet" and {a} in "pat". _______ / / / (_____ "zEta" /z/ a sound not native to Egyptian of Coptic, and generally used in words of Greek Origin, or where /s/ was close to a nasal sound | | | | |______| | | | | "Eta" /E/ or // either like English {a} in "lake" or an elongated {a} as in "lack" if the vowel were held for a longer duration ____ / \ / \ |________| | | \ / ---- "thEta" /th/ a digraph consisting of /t/ followed by /h/ like {t} and {h} in English "that hill". It was not until the period of Koine Greek that this letter came to represent // as {th} in English "think", but this development NEVER reached Coptic \ | | | \_ "iota" /i/, /I/ and /y/, this chracter could represent three Coptic sounds: like English {i} in "sit", {ea} in "seat", and {y} in "year". It was often written with two dots over it (dierisis) when it was intended to represesent /y/, and after {epsilon} when it was intended to represent /I/, but one cannot count on Coptic scribes to be consistent in spellings. _ _ | / | / |_/ | \ | \ _| \_ "Kappa" /k/ a non-aspirated {k} like {c} in French, Spanish, and Italian ( \ / \ / \ / \ / \_ "laula" /l/ like English {l} |\ /| | \ / | | \ / | | \/ | | | "mu" /m/ like English {m} |\ | | \ | | \ | | \ | | \_| "nu" /n/ like English {n} ________ / ------ | / -------- "ksi" // a digraph of /k/ followed by /s/, like {x} ) in English "expert" ____ / \ / \ | | | | \ / ---- "omikron" /o/ like English {o} in "loss" __________ | | | | | | | | | \ "pi" /p/ a non-aspirated /p/ like {p} in French, Spanish, and Italian _______ | \ | | | | |______/ | | "ro" /r/ a tap, like {r} in Italian _____ / | | \______ "simma" /s/ like English {s} in "see" _________ ( | | | | "tau" /t/ a non-aspirated /t/ like {t} in French, Spanish, and Italian _ ( \ / \ / \ / \ (_) "upsilon" /U/, /u/ and /w/, this character could represent three sounds: like English {w} in "win" and {oo} in "hoop", and the prolonged version of the same. Rarely it was written with a dierisis when it represented /w/, and after an {omicron} when it represented /U/ or /u/ ___|___ / | \ | | | | | | \____|____/ | "phi" // a digraph representing /p/ followed by /h/, like {p} and {h} in English "top house". It was not until the period of Koine Greek that this letter came to represent /f/ as {f} in English "fix", but this development NEVER reached Coptic _ ( \ / \ / \/ /\ / \ _/ \__ "khi" // a digraph representing /k/ followed by /h/, like {k} and {h} in English "smack him" It was not until the period of Koine Greek that this sound came to represent /x/ as {x} in Arabic "xaTT", but this development seems only superficially to have reached Coptic in certain late writings. \ | / | | | | | | \___|___/ | | "psi" // a digraph representing /p/ followed by /s/, like English {ps} in "synopsis" / | \ | | | | | | | | | \__/ \__/ "Omega" /O/ like French /o/ in "tome" / | \ | | | | | | \__/ \__/| ________/ "shai" // like English {sh} in "shine" / / | / | | | \______| | | "fai" /f/ like English {f} in "fact" _____ / \ | / / / (_______) "hori" /h/ This charcter may have represented more than one sound, like English {h} in "hope", and/or Arabic /H/ in "HayyAt", and/or Arabic // in "xaTT" _ _ ( \/ ) / \ / \ / \ ----------- "tjantja" // like English {ch} in {church} _____/ /___ / \ | | | | \______/ "ima" // a palatalized /k/ not unlike the sound of English /k/ followed by /y/ in "black yams" | _____|_____ | | | | "ti" // a digraph representing /t/ followed by /i/ | or /y/, similar to English {tie) in "sweetie" or {t} and {y} in "that year" That is the Coptic Alphabet as it comes to us in the Sahidic Dialect. Other dialects have a few additional characters, but one generally begins with Sahidic, and this should suffice for now. The first section of letters are all borrowed from the Greek alphabet, and the last six were adopted from the Demotic Script, the native form of writing used in Egypt. Important note: a sound which did exist in Coptic for which no sytematic writing was created was the glottal stop. Often it was represented by the doubling of vowels. In such cases, the vowel was pronounced first, and teh glottal stop second. I will use {'} as a pronunciation guide in what follows. Another sound not represented consistently in Coptic is the schwa which occurs as an unaccented vowel between certain consonants. It can be written with a supralinear stroke (horizontal line over the consonant which follows it), but this is not always done in every text. When a schwa occurs, we should type in the ascii character {@} which approximates the schwa symbol. For the purposes of ascii rendition of Coptic let us use the following system: alfa a vita b gamma g dalda d epsilon e zEta z Eta E thEta th (it is a digraph and hence two signs are appropriate) iota i kappa k laula l mu m nu n ksi ks (another digraph) omikron o pi p ro r simma s tau t upsilon u phi ph (a digraph) khi kh (a digraph) ps ps (a digraph) Omega O shai S fai f hori h tjantja c kjima 6 ti ti (a digraph) The following are vocabulary words which one could relate to earlier Egyptian: rOme rmT man/person m./f. ran rn name m. son sn brother m. (plural = snEu (pronounce "snEw")) sOne sn.t sister f. maau mw.t mother f. (pronounce ma'u) eiOt jt father m. (pronounce "yOt") (plural = eiote (pronounce "yote")) cOOme Dm` book m. (pronounce "tjO'me") eiOhe 3H.t field f. (pronounce "yOhe") ih 3x spirit/demon m. pe p.t sky/heaven f. (plural = PEue (pronounce "pEwe")) kah q3H clay/dirt/earth m. moou mw water m. (pronounce "mow", the writing of {ou} is here /w/) hoou hrw day m. (pronounce "how") ounou wnw.t hour f. (pronounce "w@nu") rompe rnp.t year f. te tr season m. SEn Sn tree m. bO b3.t bush/sprig f. beke fq3 income/earnings m. bOk b3k(?) go v. intrans. (preferred word in Souther Coptic) Se Smj go v. intrans. (preferred word in Northern Coptic) ei jj come v. intrans. (pronounce "I") prrie prj.t emanate v. intrans. (pronounce "p@rye") eine jnj.t fetch/bring v. trans. (pronounce "Ine") eire jrj.t do/make v. trans. (pronounce "Ire") cO Dd say/tell v. trans. moute mdw call v. trans. sOtm sDm hear/listen/obey v. trans. nau nw look/see v. trans. sOoun swn know v. trans. me mrj love v. trans. me mrj.t love m. me m`.t truth f. moste msDj hate v. trans. mooSe mS` walk/travel v. intrans. (pronounce mo'she) noub nbw gold m. hat HD silver m. ti rdj give v. trans. p- p3- the m. (definite article) p-kah "the earth" t- t3- the f. t-pe "the sky" n- n3- the pl. n-eiote "the fathers"; m-pEue "the heavens" (note that /n/ assimilates to /m/ next to a bilabial sound) ou- w`- or w`.t a/an (indefinite article) ou-son "a brother"; ou-sOne "a sister" hen- nhy-n- a few/some (indefinte article pl.) hen-snEu "some brothers"; hen-Sone "some sisters" n- n to/for n-t-maau "for the mother"; m-peiOt "for the father"; n-hen-SEn "for some trees" e- r to/against/at/concerning e-t-pe "to the sky"; e-m-beke "about the earnings" n- m with/in/as hi- Hr on/upon/and/concerning ha- Xr under hn Xnw inside ebol r-bnr outside Ei `.wy house m. pef- p3y=f his (of a masculine object) pef-noub "his gold" tef- t3y=f his (of a feminine object) tef-sOne "his sister" nef- n3y=f his (of plural objects) nef-SEn "his trees" pes- p3y=s her (of a masculine object) pes-son "her brother" tes- t3y=s her (of a feminie object) tes-maau "her mother" nes- n3y=s her (of plural objects) nes-cOOme "her books" Numbers: oua w`w one m. ouei w`.t one f. (pronounce "wI") snau snw two m. snte sn.t two f. (pronounce "s@nte") Somnt xmtw three m. (pronounce "shom@nt") Somte xmt.t three f. ftoou jfdw four m. (pronounce "ftow") ftoe jfd.t four f. (pronounce "fto'e") tiou djw five m. (pronounce "ti'u") tie dj.t five f. (pronounce "ti'e") soou srsw six m. soe srs.t six f. (pronounce "so'e") saSf sfxw seven m. saSfe sfx.t Smoun xmnw eight m. (pronounce "shmUn") Smoune xmn.t eight f. psis psDw nine m. psite psD.t nine f. mEt mDw ten m. mEte mD.t ten f. mntoua mDw-w`w eleven (pronounce "m@nt-wa") mntsnoous mDw-snw twelve (pronounce "m@nt-snow@s") mntSomte mDw-xmtw thriteen "m@nt-shomte" mntafte mDw-jfdw fourteen "m@nt-'afte" etc. Independent Pronouns: anok jnk I ntok ntk you m. (pronounce "@ntok") nto ntT you f. "@nto" ntof ntf he "@ntof" ntos nts she "@ntos" anon jnn we ntOtn ntTn you pl. "@ntOt@n" ntoou ntsn they "@ntow" Pronoun Suffixes: =i/=t =j I, me =k =k you m. =<_> =T you f. (no pronounced sound) =f =f he, him =s =s she, her =n =n we, us =tn =Tn you pl. (pronounce "t@n") =ou =sn they, them OK, this post has gotten rather long, and I think this is enough for now. See if you can build some simple groupings of these lexemes which will make grammatical sense in Coptic. I will try to help you, if you write something. (I realize that I have hardly given enough grammatical information for you to do much, but try what you can, following the short examples I gave after certain vocabulary words.) Yours, Geoff Graham sokar@minerva.cis.yale.edu ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 11:35:42 -0700 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Beginning Coptic (LONG) Graham wrote: > > Hello, > > I know that there are people here who would be interested in the > subject > of the Coptic language, especially as it relates to earlier Egyptian. > Mark has suggested that from time to time, I post something which > might > help people get started in Coptic, if they so desire. Thanks for starting this Geoff! One excellent resource for Coptic on the Web is at the St. Shenouda pages. Hany Takla has created information on the Coptic alphabet, and a set of lessons on elementary Coptic. He deals with the Bohairic dialect, which is the language used by the Coptic church. His site is at: http://www.stshenouda.com/coptlang.htm Perhaps Geoff can check this out too, and tell us what differences in dialects there are in this elementary material. -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:36:03 +0000 Subject: AEL Unas, the slayer and eater of the gods! I wonder if anyone would feel brave enough to attempt something from the Pyramid Texts? There is an interesting extract from the pyramid of Unas in Budge's Gods of the Egyptians Vol 1, starting on P45. Budge gives the a hieroglyphic transcript, transliteration (old style), and english translation of 30 lines of text from this pyramid. We could do an up-to-date transliteration and maybe see if we can improve on Budge's translation. This is by no means the easiest text in the world, but it might be interesting to ponder over, nevertheless! Comments? Mark. -- Mark Wilson weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:36:02 +0000 Subject: AEL The Hymn to Aten from the tomb of Ai About 3 months ago there was some discussion on the list about working through the Hymn to Aten. Some initial enthusiasm was expressed at the time, but then it all went quite. To my knowledge, there is no hieroglyphic transcript available on the web, but there is a typeset version in a book by Wallis Budge called "Tutankhamen: Amenism, Atenism and Egyptian Monotheism". This book is published by Dover at $6.95. Would people still be interested in doing this? Regards, Mark. -- Mark Wilson weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 19:25:47 -0500 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Chris Lord Subject: Re: AEL Unas, the slayer and eater of the gods! As someone new to hieroglyphics, I was curious as to what resources would be the best to acquire so I could get a firm grasp of the language and begin working on my own to transliterate the 'glyphs. I have "Introducing Egyptian Hieroglyphs" by Barbara Watterson, a gift given to me by a friend, but I was wondering which books might be available which are better at teaching or if this book (if any of you have read it) is adequate at all. Thanks for your time and patience, and good luck with all of your translations and whatnot. :) -Chris Lord Southwestern University Georgetown, Texas lordj@southwestern.edu ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 08:05:23 -0700 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Unas, the slayer and eater of the gods! Chris Lord wrote: > > As someone new to hieroglyphics, I was curious as to what > resources would > be the best to acquire so I could get a firm grasp of the language and > begin working on my own to transliterate the 'glyphs. > > I have "Introducing Egyptian Hieroglyphs" by Barbara > Watterson, a gift > given to me by a friend, but I was wondering which books might be > available > which are better at teaching or if this book (if any of you have read > it) > is adequate at all. IEH is quite good as far as it goes. The main problem is that her hand-drawn hieroglyphs are not the best. It does give a good basic knowledge of the hieroglyphic writing system, common hieroglyphics, some basic vocabulary and grammar; it also has exercises for practice. If you want a more in-depth grammar designed for teaching/learning, _Middle Egyptian Grammar_ by James Hoch (available from the author) is very good and reasonably up-to-date. If you prefer the style of brief explanations of grammar with lots of examples for each point, but no exercises, _Middle Egyptian: An Introduction_ by Gertie Englund (available from Uppsala Univertsity - the cheapest way) is good and up-to-date. -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 15:40:28 -0500 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Katherine Griffis Subject: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics (WAS Re: AEL Unas...) At 08:05 AM 10/9/97 -0700, Stephen Fryer wrote: >If you want a more in-depth grammar designed for teaching/learning, >_Middle Egyptian Grammar_ by James Hoch (available from the author) is >very good and reasonably up-to-date. > >If you prefer the style of brief explanations of grammar with lots of >examples for each point, but no exercises, _Middle Egyptian: An >Introduction_ by Gertie Englund (available from Uppsala Univertsity - >the cheapest way) is good and up-to-date. I suggest Hoch's book for those who are wishing to learn hieroglyphics from the beginning because of the in-depth descriptions, exercises, and examples. Gardiner's _Egyptian Grammar_ book is good for learning only until about Chapter 15 or so, as the verb forms information is a bit outdated now. However, it is also understandable and has quite good exercises to that point. Regards -- Katherine Griffis-Greenberg American Research Center in Egypt International Association of Egyptologists University of Alabama at Birmingham Special Studies ftp://newton.newton.cam.ac.uk/pub/ancient/egypt/email.addresses.txt ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 15:14:00 -0700 From: James Doyle To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics (WAS Re: AEL Unas...) Katherine Griffis wrote: > At 08:05 AM 10/9/97 -0700, Stephen Fryer wrote: > > >If you want a more in-depth grammar designed for teaching/learning, > >_Middle Egyptian Grammar_ by James Hoch (available from the author) > is > >very good and reasonably up-to-date. > > > >If you prefer the style of brief explanations of grammar with lots of > > >examples for each point, but no exercises, _Middle Egyptian: An > >Introduction_ by Gertie Englund (available from Uppsala Univertsity - > > >the cheapest way) is good and up-to-date. > > I suggest Hoch's book for those who are wishing to learn hieroglyphics > from > the beginning because of the in-depth descriptions, exercises, and > examples. Gardiner's _Egyptian Grammar_ book is good for learning > only > until about Chapter 15 or so, as the verb forms information is a bit > outdated now. However, it is also understandable and has quite good > exercises to that point. > > Regards -- > > Katherine Griffis-Greenberg > > American Research Center in Egypt > International Association of Egyptologists > > University of Alabama at Birmingham > Special Studies > > ftp://newton.newton.cam.ac.uk/pub/ancient/egypt/email.addresses.txt ******************************************************Does anyone have the information about where to purchase this book (James Hoch)...any help would be appreciated. Thank you, James M. Doyle -- +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Necropoli di Tebe A Library of Ancient Egyptian History (A Private Collection) egypt@primenet.com =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:20:09 +0000 Subject: Re: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics (WAS Re: AEL Unas...) On 9 Oct 97 at 15:14, James Doyle wrote: > Katherine Griffis wrote: > > I suggest Hoch's book for those who are wishing to learn hieroglyphics > > from > > the beginning because of the in-depth descriptions, exercises, and > > examples. Gardiner's _Egyptian Grammar_ book is good for learning > > only > > until about Chapter 15 or so, as the verb forms information is a bit > > outdated now. However, it is also understandable and has quite good > > exercises to that point. > Does anyone have > the information about where to purchase this book (James Hoch)...any > help would be appreciated. Hi James, You can get the book directly from the author (James_Hoch@mail.campuslife.utoronto.ca), or through specialist book sellers such as Eisenbrauns. Hope this helps! Best Wishes, Mark. -- Mark Wilson weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 10:00:34 -0500 From: Saida To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics (WAS Re: AEL Unas...) Katherine Griffis wrote: > > I suggest Hoch's book for those who are wishing to learn hieroglyphics from > the beginning because of the in-depth descriptions, exercises, and > examples. Gardiner's _Egyptian Grammar_ book is good for learning only > until about Chapter 15 or so, as the verb forms information is a bit > outdated now. However, it is also understandable and has quite good > exercises to that point. Probably Ms. Griffis has not had occasion to refer to the comprehensive sign list at the back of Gardiner's "Grammar" with its helpful explanations, but there is scarcely a day goes by that I don't find it tremendously helpful. Marianne Luban ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 13:39:17 +0200 From: Serge Rosmorduc To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL The Hymn to Aten from the tomb of Ai Mark Wilson writes: > About 3 months ago there was some discussion on the list about > working through the Hymn to Aten. Some initial enthusiasm was > expressed at the time, but then it all went quite. > > To my knowledge, there is no hieroglyphic transcript available > on the web, but there is a typeset version in a book by Wallis Budge > called "Tutankhamen: Amenism, Atenism and Egyptian Monotheism". This > book is published by Dover at $6.95. > > Would people still be interested in doing this? > > Regards, > Mark. > -- > Mark Wilson > weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk > http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ It might be quite interesting. There is also a recent french edition by P.~Grandet, with commentary, hieroglyphic text, and translation, which costs about 35FF. Another reasonably priced source is in Bibliotheca AEgyptiaca, Texts from the time of Akhenaton. ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:15:32 -0400 () From: Robyn Adams Gillam To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL The Hymn to Aten from the tomb of Ai Why not use the facsimilie in Theodore Davies' Rock Tombs of Amarna vol. 6? It's fairly accesible and surperior to a typescript version. Robyn Gillam Classical Studies York University Toronto, Canada On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Mark Wilson wrote: > Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 20:36:02 +0000 > From: Mark Wilson > Reply-To: Ancient Egyptian Language List > To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk > Subject: AEL The Hymn to Aten from the tomb of Ai > > About 3 months ago there was some discussion on the list about > working through the Hymn to Aten. Some initial enthusiasm was > expressed at the time, but then it all went quite. > > To my knowledge, there is no hieroglyphic transcript available > on the web, but there is a typeset version in a book by Wallis Budge > called "Tutankhamen: Amenism, Atenism and Egyptian Monotheism". This > book is published by Dover at $6.95. > > Would people still be interested in doing this? > > Regards, > Mark. > -- > Mark Wilson > weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk > http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ > ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 14:33:32 -0400 () From: Robyn Adams Gillam To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics (WAS Re: AEL Unas...) You can contact James at james_hoch@campuslife.utoronto.ca Best Wishes, Robyn Gillam Classical Studies York University Toronto, Canada On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, James Doyle wrote: > Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 15:14:00 -0700 > From: James Doyle > Reply-To: Ancient Egyptian Language List > To: Ancient Egyptian Language List > Subject: Re: AEL Learning Hieroglyphics (WAS Re: AEL Unas...) > > Katherine Griffis wrote: > > > At 08:05 AM 10/9/97 -0700, Stephen Fryer wrote: > > > > >If you want a more in-depth grammar designed for teaching/learning, > > >_Middle Egyptian Grammar_ by James Hoch (available from the author) > > is > > >very good and reasonably up-to-date. > > > > > >If you prefer the style of brief explanations of grammar with lots of > > > > >examples for each point, but no exercises, _Middle Egyptian: An > > >Introduction_ by Gertie Englund (available from Uppsala Univertsity - > > > > >the cheapest way) is good and up-to-date. > > > > I suggest Hoch's book for those who are wishing to learn hieroglyphics > > from > > the beginning because of the in-depth descriptions, exercises, and > > examples. Gardiner's _Egyptian Grammar_ book is good for learning > > only > > until about Chapter 15 or so, as the verb forms information is a bit > > outdated now. However, it is also understandable and has quite good > > exercises to that point. > > > > Regards -- > > > > Katherine Griffis-Greenberg > > > > American Research Center in Egypt > > International Association of Egyptologists > > > > University of Alabama at Birmingham > > Special Studies > > > > ftp://newton.newton.cam.ac.uk/pub/ancient/egypt/email.addresses.txt > > ******************************************************Does anyone have > the information about where to purchase this book (James Hoch)...any > help would be appreciated. > > Thank you, > > James M. Doyle > > > -- > > > > +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ > Necropoli di Tebe > A Library of Ancient Egyptian History > (A Private Collection) > egypt@primenet.com > =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= > > ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 22:42:42 +0000 Subject: AEL Westcar p7, lines 21-6 I don't think we've quite finished page 7, so here goes with the birthing scene: aHa.n Dd.n As.t "imi=k wsr m X.t=s, m rn=k pwy n.y wsr-r=f!" Isis said "May you not be powerful in her womb, in this your name of 'The one more Powerful than He'"! war.in Xrd pn tp a.wy=s m Xrd n.y mH wa, This child rushed forth, head and arms held by her (?) I'm not too sure about this one. What are verb forms? Can someone parse this sentence for us? Is anyone else going to have a go at the remaining lines of page 7? rwD qs.w=f, nxbt a.w.t=f m nbw, afn.t=f m xzbD mAa iai.in=sn sw, Sad(.w) XpA=f, rdi Hr ifd.y m Db.t aHa.n mzA.n sy msi-xn.t r=f Regards, Mark. -- Mark Wilson weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:44:45 +0000 Subject: AEL Hymn to the Aten on the web Dear all, Things have been moving quickly over the last couple of days. In order to make the hieroglyphs for the Great Hymn to the Aten available quickly, Geoff Graham has written them out by hand, and then scanned them in. I'd like to say a big thank you to Geoff for working so hard to make this text available for the list's use. The quality of Geoff's hieroglyphic handwriting is really quite stunning! To view the hieroglyphs for the Hymn to the Aten, simply point your web browser at the AEL home page (URL at the bottom of this message), and click on the link to the Hymn to the Aten. You may need to hit 'reload' to make the link appear. Although we have not yet finished going through the Westcar papyrus, I see no reason why we can't have a look at this new material in parallel. Have fun! Mark. -- Mark Wilson weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ ==============================================================================