From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 16.18 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:40:08 -0500 16.18 (read right to left) m wSb nfrt m bjnt m rdj kt m st kt "Don't answer good for bad, don't give one in place of the other." This is two sentences in the negative imperative construction. Both begin with 'm + negative complement' followed by their objects + modifications. m wSb nfrt m bjnt m wSb "Don't answer" m + negatival complement of 3-lit. verb wSb (this is allegedly wSb(w) but Allen doesn't seem to include final -w posited in sect. 14.17) nfrt "a good thing" This is the adjective 'nfr' used as a noun. it may be feminine to agree with the implied 'xt' "thing" which is feminine when refering to something specific (as apparently it is here) and masculine when used in a generic sense. (end of section 4.4) m preposition bjnt "a bad thing" from the adjective-verb 'bjn', feminine as with nfrt So the object of the negative imperative is 'nfrt m bjnt' "a good thing for a bad thing". m rdj kt m st kt m rdj "Don't give" m + negatival complement of the anomolous verb rdj. section 14.17 says that the complement of rdj is just rdj as far as we know, with no examples of rdw (or rdy?) kt...kt We're given a translation of this idiom as "one ... the other" in the gloss. m st "in place" prepositional phrase used as a noun 'kt' is the apparent adjective "other, another" (section 6.7) If modifying a noun it always comes first, but can also be used as a noun on its own, where it means a generic "another, the other" so 'kt m st kt' is literally "other in place, other" with the first 'kt' modifying the prepositional phrase 'm st' and the second 'kt' standing on it. Putting these together we have, "Don't answer a good one for a bad one, don't give one in place of the other." 16.18 ORIENTATION: Horizontal, right to left, normal TRANSLITERATION: G17-Z7:N37-D58-Z9-A2-F35-I9:D21:X1-G17-D58-M17-N35:G37*X1-G17-D21:D36- V31A:X1-G17-Q1-X1:O1-V31A:X1 G17 m Z7:N37-D58-Z9-A2 w:S-b- Det BREAK, CROSS, NUMBER- Det. SPEAK, THINK, EAT, DRINK F35-I9:D21:X1 nfr-f{complement}:r{complement}:t{complement} G17 m D58-M17-N35:G37*X1 b-j-n: Det SMALL, BAD*t G17 m D21:D36 r: Often var for D37-dj V31A:X1 k:t G17 m Q1-X1:O1 st-t{complement}: Det BUILDING, PLACE V31A:X1 k:t m wSb nfrt m bjnt m rdj kt m st kt VOCABULARY: m - negative participle wSb - verb, 3lit - "answer" nfr - adjective - "good, beautiful" m - preposition bjn - adjective - "evil, bad" rdj - verb, anom, "give, put" kt.kt - particle - "one.another" (from Allen) st - noun, f - "place, seat" GRAMMAR: m wSb = m + negatival complement nfrt m bjnt = object of the infinitive wSb, m bjnt = modifying prepositional phrase m rdj = m + negatival complement kt m st kt = object of the infinitive rdj, m st = modifying prepositional phrase TRANSLATION: "Do not answer good with evil, do not give the one in place of the other." 16.18 m wSb nfrt m bjnt m rdj kt m st kt Do not answer good with bad; do not give one in place of the other wSb (verb 3-lit) = to answer 16.18 read right to left m wSb nfrt m bjnt m rdj kt m st kt Don't answer what is good by what is bad, don't put one in place of the other. m imperative don't wSb verb 3-lit answer nfrt adjective-verb 3-lit good m preposition by (in the use of) bjnt adjective-verb 3-lit bad m imperative don't rdj verb anom put kt adjective noun other m preposition in st noun place kt adjective (feminine singular dual noun) other ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 16.19 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:36:22 -0500 Exercise 16.19 -------------- transliteration: m snD m snD nDs (m snD m zp 2 nDs) translation: Don't be afraid, don't be afraid, little one This sentence involves a negative imperative. Here the negation is accomplished by the imperative form 'm' of the verb 'jmj' followed by the negatival complement of the verb whose action is negated. In this sentence, that verb is the 3-lit. adjective-verb verb 'snD', "become afraid", whose negatival complement is 'snD'. Thus 'm snD' means "don't be afraid". After 'm snD', the preposition 'm' appears again followed by 'zp 2'. 'zp 2' was used as a kind of notational device to denote a repeated word or phrase. In this case, 'zp 2' following 'm' indicates that the preceding phrase 'm snD' is being repeated; so 'm snD m zp 2' is equivalent to 'm snD m snD' meaning "don't be afraid, don't be afraid". The sentence concludes with a vocative expression, 'nDs' meaning "little one", indicating the person being addressed. 16.19 m snD, m snD nDs Don't be afraid, don't be afraid little one. m imperative-form of negative verb jmj don't snD verb 3-lit become afraid zp2 phrase meaning "two times, twice" and indicates the preceding signs are to be repeated nDs noun commoner or little man (little one?) the person being addressed here and is a vocative ******************************************************************* 16.19 m snD m snD nDs Don't be afraid, don't be afraid, little man! m = "Don't" imperative of the negative verb jmj snD = "become afraid", negatival complement zp 2 ditto (§9.5) nDs = "little man", vocative This is another example of the simpler form of the negative imperative, consisting of the negative verb 'm' + negatival complement, 'snD' (§16.4). This means "Don't be afraid". For the next element Allen directs us to §9.5. The construction 'zp 2', indicates that the previous phrase is to be repeated for emphasis. The final word of the sentence, 'nDs', is a vocative, the person to whom the imperative is addressed. This is the Egyptian wordfor a common person, literally "little man". ******************************************************** 16.19 Transcription: (literal) m snD m zp 2 nDs (read as) m snD m snD nDs Dissection: > m = negation > snD < snD (verb 3-lit.) "become afraid" > zp 2 = used as a ditto mark to repeat the phrase which precedes it. (see 9.5) > nDs = "commoner" (lit. "little man"). Vocative, in this case. Translation: "Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid, commoner." ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 16.21 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:28:41 -0500 16.21 ORIENTATION: Horizontal, right to left, normal TRANSLITERATION: D46:W12-M17-M17-D5-N35:V13:N35-N35-G17-M3:Aa1:X1 ~D46:W12-M17-M17-D5 d:g-y- Det for actions associated with the eye ~N35:V13:N35 n:T:n ~N35 n ~G17-M3:Aa1:X1 m-xt:t{complement}:t{complement} dgy n.Tn n m xt VOCABULARY: dgy - verb, 3ai - "look" n - preposition Tn - 2nd plu suffix pronoun m xt - noun,f (prepositional phrase acting as a noun) - "future" GRAMMAR: dgy - imperative, imperatives of final weak verbs can sometimes end in -y n.Tn - prepositional phrase = adverb clause of advantage n m xt - prepositional phrase = adverb clause of time. *************** QUESTION **************** Unclear if this is a dative of advantage or an object. TRANSLATION: "Look to/for yourselves in the future." 16.21 Dgy n=Tn n m xt Look for yourselves to the future Dgj (verb 3-ae inf) = to look m xt (as a noun) = future [from the verb xt] 16.21 Transliteration: dgy n.Tn n m xt Translation: Look for yourselves to the future dgy = Look - verb (from 3ae-inf dgi) sometimes appears in the plural imperative of final weak verbs (16.1) n.Tn = for yourselves - 2PL suffix pronoun n = to m xt = future - noun 16.21 dgy n.tn n m xt words: dgy = imperative form of 3ae-inf dgj "look" - y ending sometimes found in plural imperatives of final weak verbs n.tn = to you; n = to/for m xt = expression "after" as preposition, or "future" as noun analysis: imperative with VdA structure - look to you (pl.) to/for the future so as per Allen: look for yourselves to the future ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 16.20 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:32:22 -0500 16.20 swrj m jr ndp nn iw=i r wAH=t Drink, do not sip; I am not going to stop you. swrj (verb )= to drink ndb (verb 3-lit) = to sip wAH (verb 3-lit) = to set, place, add, stop The second part of the sentence was quoted as an example of (rarely used) nn-negation in §15.8 16.20 swrj m jr nDb nn jw.j r wAH.t This sentence can be broken down into 3 component parts; animperative, a negated imperative, and a pseudoverbal construction. 1. The imperative. swr / swj - triliteral verb meaning 'to drink'. The form in this sentence (which is the imperative) is written with BOTH the r and thereed leaf at the end. See Allen 2.8.3; the original 'r' could stay, it could also be replaced by the reed leaf, or the scribe could writethe word with the final '-r' AND the reed leaf! That's apparently what happened here. 2. The negated imperative. nDb - to sip There are 2 ways of negating an imperative. The 'short' way is to combine the particle 'm' with the negatival complement of the verb. The 'long' way has 3 parts: particle 'm' + negatival complement of the verb 'jrj' (to do) + a verbal noun. The negatival complement of 'jrj' is 'jr', with the optional '-w' at the end not shown. This 'jr' is represented by the 'eye' biliteral. So, the 'short' imperative would be: m nDb(w) - Don't sip. The 'long' imperative is m jr nDb - Don't do sipping. 3. The pseudoverbal wAH - triliteral verb with a wide range of meanings, among them sit, place; add; stop; remain, last. Refer to 15.2 for the meaning of the pseudoverbals; here, thepseudoverbal construction with 'r' expresses action that is planned. It is introduced by the particle 'jw': jw.j r wAH - I am going to stop/prevent. Next, with an object pronoun: jw.j r wAH.t - I am going to stop YOU. (Notice that the regular 2nd person feminine sing form '-T' is replaced by the sound '-t'. Allen 2.8.3 again. Now, the construction is negated: nn jw.j r wAH.t - I'm NOT going to stop you. (Allen says this way of negating is rare.) Final translation: Drink! Don't sip! I'm not going to stop you. Apparently the speaker is reassuring the drinker that it's OK to drink all she wants; the speaker won't grab the pitcher away from her if she has too much. 16.20 Hint: said by a servant giving a woman a drink from a jar. Transcription: swr/swj m jr ndb nn jw.j r wAH.t Dissection: > swr/swj = (verb 3-lit.) "drink" (from dictionary) > m = negation > jr < jrj "make, do" > m jr = "don't do..." (16.4) > ndb = (verb 3-lit.) "sip" (NOTE: written nDb) (from dictionary) > m jr ndb = "Don't sip." (lit. "Don't do sipping.") > nn = negation > jw.j = introductory particle (16.6) + 1st person singular suffix pronoun > r = r + infinitive = action that is planned or inevitable, usually translated by simple future ("will...") > wAH = (verb 3-lit.) "set, place; add; stop; remain, last" > .t = 2nd person singular suffix pronoun (referring to the woman drinking from the jar) > nn jw.j r wAH.t = "I will not stop you," "I'm not going to stop you." (15.8, negated pseudoverbal construction) Translation: "Drink! Don't sip. I will not stop you." ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 16.23 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:58:45 -0500 16.23 (read right to left) jsT r.f pr nmtj-nxt pn Hr zmA tA "So, as for it, the house of this Nemti-nakht is on the landing." jsT - proclitic particle (statement auxilary) marking the following clause as dependent, but often used in a vague way. Translates as "so, then, while, etc." (section 12.16.1, 16.6.5) r.f - "for it" pr - noun "house" nmtj-nxt - We're told this is a personal name, and it has the A1 determinative. In the key Allen transcribes this as "Nemti-nakht" pn - demonstrative pronoun "this" Hr - preposition "on, upon" zmA tA - noun "landing", literally "to join the land" with the 3-lit. verb 'zmA' I found this one quite confusing. I think the basic grammer is an A B sentence 'pr Hr zmA tA', "the house is on the landing". This clause is introduced with 'jsT r.f' which is believe is something like "So, as for it," with the '.f' referring to the house. Allen leaves 'r.f' untranslated in his answer key. 'nmtj-nxt pn' is a noun phrase in direct genetive with 'pr' showing posession. "The house of this Nemti-nakht". Note that the -n demonstratives come after the noun they modify (section 5.9). 16.23 jst r.f pr nmtj-nxt pn Hr zmA tA Hey! No imperatives in this sentence! It's just a sentence with an adverbial predicate. It's included here because of the two particles at the beginning. Build-up -------- pr - house zmA tA - Allen translates this as 'landing'. pr Hr zmA tA - (the) house in on/upon the landing nmtj-nxt - personal name pr mntj-nxt pn Hr zmA tA - the house of this Nemti-nacht is on the landing. Now, the two particles: Particle #1 - jst. This is a proclitic particle (comes first). Allen says in 16.6.5 that it indicates some sort of connectionwith a preceding statement. Seems like it really doesn't DO anything significant except to signal a connection with what went before. Particle #2 - r.f In 16.7.2, Allen states that the preposition 'r' combined with the 3rd person suffix pronoun 'f' relates the clause that it's in to a previous statement. Enclitic position. So we've got 2 particles doing the same thing - tying this sentence with what went before. Now, this sentence comes from the Egyptian tale of 'The Eloquent Peasant'. This 'Nemtynakht' is the bad guy in the story. The author introduces him, says that he's the son of so-and-so, works for the high steward Rensi, and so on. Now this Nemtynakht is plotting howto take away the peasant's donkey and other goods. And he finally thinks up a plan. He's going to try to make the donkey walk on his barley so he can lay claim to it. This is the point in the story where our sentence fits in. So it's logical that the author ties this sentence in with the introductory material that's just been stated. Translation: ------------ "Now, the house of this Nemtynakht was on the landing (or narrowpath; there seems to be some differences of opinion how best to translate 'zmA tA'.) 16.23 transliteration: jst r.f pr nmtj-nxt pn Hr zmA tA translation: Now, the house of this Nemti-nakht is (was) on the landing This sentence starts off with the proclitic particle 'jst' ('jsT'), which marks a clause as dependent on a preceding clause or sentence. This is followed by the "enclitic particle" 'r.f', which is actually the preposition 'r' with the suffix pronoun 'f' attached. This literally means "with respect to it" and refers back to the previous statement; as such, it is usually translated with "so" or something equivalent. Their appearance together in the combination 'jst r.f' is normally to introduce a new topic or additional information in the course of a narrative and can be translated with "now", "also", or something similar. 'pr nmtj-nxt pn Hr zmA tA' is a clause with adverbial predicate. The subject is the noun phrase 'pr nmtj-nxt pn'. 'pr nmtj-nxt' is a direct genitive of 'pr', "house", and the proper name 'nmtj-nxt'. This is followed by the demonstrative pronoun 'pn' which agrees in gender and number with 'pr'. So, 'pr nmtj-nxt pn' means "this house of Nemti-nakht'. The predicate is the prepositional phrase 'Hr zmA tA'. 'zmA tA' means "landing", so 'Hr zmA tA' means "on the landing". 16.23 jst r.f pr nmtj-nxt pn Hr zmA tA Now, the house of this Nemti-nakht was at the landing. jst particle serves to mark a clause as subordinate r preposition act like an eclitic particle when it governs a suffix pronoun .f suffix pronoun jst r.f particles "now" This combination is used to introduce a new topic or add information. pr noun house nmtj-nxt noun Nemti (a god) pn demonstrative pronoun this Hr expresses the imperfect is, was zmA verb 2-lit "join" tA noun "land" zmA tA noun "landing" ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 16.24 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:18:05 -0500 16.24 nfr pw smnx aA wpw Hr pA jtj words: nfr = proclitic participle, used in `nfr pw X' structure, so means `no X at all', where X is: smnx = make useful/functional - caus. 3-lit; (I suggest) here the infin. acts as a verbal noun = `the making useful one/thing' - so "no `making useful thing' at all" > nothing at all useable aA - one of only a very few true adverbs = `here' wpw + Hr = expression `except' pA = `that', later `the'; jtj = barley So together, as per Allen: there is nothing at all useable here, except that barley 16.24 nfr pw smnx aA wpw Hr pA jtj nfr = proclitic particle = negation nfr pw = there is no/nothing ... at all (S16.6.9) smnx = adjective = useful aA = adverb = here nfr pw smnx aA= there is nothing useful/usable here at all wpw Hr = except pA = demonstrative pronoun = this/that jtj = barley, grain nfr pw smnx aA wpw Hr pA jtj = There is nothing useful/usable here at all, except that barley 16.24 nfr pw smnx aA wpw Hr pA jtj There is nothing at all useful here except that barley. nfr pw = "there is no", construction with the particle nfr, "not" (§16.6.9) smnx = "useful thing", adjective used as noun aA = "here" wpw Hr = "except", compound preposition (p.457) pA jtj = "this/that barley", object of the preposition This is one of the special constructions with the negative particle 'nfr' (§16.6.9 - first bullet point). The construction 'nfr pw X' means "There is no X at all". Here X is the adjective 'smnx', "useful", used on its own as a noun, i.e. "a useful thing". So literally: "There is no useful thing at all." This phrase is modified by the adverb 'aA', "here". The sentence ends with a futher adverbial phrase. 'wpw Hr' is a compound preposition meaning "except". Its object is the noun phrase 'pA jtj', "that barley". ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 16.25 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:15:33 -0500 16.25 ORIENTATION: Horizontal, right to left, normal TRANSLITERATION: M17-Z7-F31-S29-A2-N16:N23*Z1-D2-Z1-F31-S29-N35- V28-D55- W19-M17- D4:X1-G21-V28-Q3:O39-D36-V4-G1-M17-M17-G37-A1-G17-V30-P6-D36:M35*Z1- Y1:Z2 ~M17-Z7 j-w ~F31-S29-A2 ms-s{complement}- {Det. SPEAK, THINK, EAT, DRINK, and for emotions, LOVE, HATE} ~N16:N23*Z1 tA: {Det LAND, especially IRRIGATED LAND}*{ Used as ideogram of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms} ~D2-Z1 Hr-{ Used as ideogram of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms} ~F31-S29-N35- V28-D55 ms-s{complement}-n-H-{ legs walking backwards, Det REVERSE} ~W19-M17 mj-j{complement} ~D4:X1 jr:t ~G21-V28-Q3:O39 nH-H{complement}-p:{ Det STONE, BRICK}, note G21 is a guinea fowl ~D36-V4-G1-M17-M17-G37-A1 a-wA-A{complement}-j-j-{ Det SMALL, BAD}-{ seated man, determinative PEOPLE} ~G17 m ~V30 nb ~P6-D36:M35*Z1-Y1:Z2 aHa-a{complement}: {Det HEAP}*{ Used as ideogram of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms}-{ Det WRITING, ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS}:{ Det in PLURAL} jw ms tA Hr msnH mj jrt nHp awAy m nb aHa VOCABULARY: jw - introductory particle signifying impermanence ms - particle - "truly" tA - noun, m - "Earth, land" Hr - preposition msnH - verb, 4lit - "spin around" mj - preposition - "like" jrj - verb, anom - "do, make" nHp - noun, m - "potter's wheel" awAy - noun, m - "robber, thief" m - preposition nb - noun, m - "lord, master, owner" aHa - noun, m - "heap, pile", often of riches. GRAMMAR: Allen comments that there are two sentences here. First sentence: ms - enclitic particle tA Hr msnH - adverbial construction: noun + prepositional phrase. Hr + infinitive expresses concomitant or incomplete action mj jrt nHp - prepositional phrase, jrt is an infinitive following the preposition mj (14.4), nHp is the subject expressed as a direct genitive (14.4.2) - lit: "like the doing of the potter's wheel". Second sentence: Adverbial sentence: subject + prepositional phrase. awAy is the subject. m jb aHa is the prepositional phrase. m is the m of predication indicating acquired status. TRANSLATION: "Truly the land is spinning around like a potter's wheel does. The thief is now the owner of riches" *********************************************************** 16.25 Transliteration: jw ms tA Hr msnH mj jrt nHp awAy m nb aHaw Translation: Surely the land is spinning around like the action of a potter's wheel; the robber is an owner of heaps of riches. jw ms = Surely - particle. (idiom for exaggeration 16.7.7) tA = land - noun Hr msnH = is spinning around - Hr plus infinitive (Pseudoverbal construction indicating action in process 15.2) mj = like - preposition nHp = potter's wheel - noun m nb = owner - noun. In this instance nb is used to indicate posession (6.9) *********** QUESTION: Unsure of use of 'm'. *********** aHaw = of heaps (often of riches) - noun ******************************************************************* 16.25 jw ms tA Hr msnH mj jrt nHp, awAy m nb aHaw Surely, the land is spinning around like the action of a potter's wheel; the robber is an owner of heaps of riches. jw proclitic (first element or clause in a sentence) particle serves to assert a statement is true from the speakers point of view ms particle implies astonishment, reproach and corresponds closely to "truely or surely" tA noun land Hr is msnH verb 4-lit spin-around Hr msnH is spinning mj preposition like 8.2.4 jrt 3ae-inf base-t to do, doing nHp noun potters wheel awAy noun robber m preposition of nb first noun of a direct genitive to indicate possession owner aHaw noun heap of riches 16.25 jw ms tA Hr msnH mj jrt nHp, awAy m nb aHaw Words: jw = introductory particle; ms = enclitic particle `truly, surely'; ta = land; Hr = introduces pseudoverbal form = `is doing X' msnH = spin around, 4-lit mj = like; jrt = do/make - as infinitive (with -t ending) can be a verbal noun that describes the action of the verb; here the verb is `do' so verbal noun = `the doing' or `the action' nHp = potter's wheel; awAy = robber; m = m of predication; nb = lord (of) - one way of showing ownership - lord of = owner of = `to have' aHaw = heap, pile (especially of riches) So: truly (the) land is spinning around like the doing/action of the potter's wheel, the robber has/ is the lord/owner of heaps (of riches) Finally as per Allen: surely the land is spinning around like the action of a potters wheel, the robber is an owner of heaps of riches 16.25 jw ms tA Hr msnH mj jrt nHp awAy m nb aHaw jw = particle = asserts truth of statement from speaker's point of view ms = particle = surely jw ms = Surely - exaggeration (S16.7.7) tA = land Hr msnH = verb 4-lit = spin around base stem = msnH infinitive = msnH msnH = infinitive = to spin around/spinning around Hr + infinitive = pseudoverbal construction = action in progress jw ms tA Hr msnH = Surely, the land is spinning around mj = preposition = like jrj = verb 3ae-inf = make, do, etc base stem = jr infinitive = base stem + t jrt = infinitive = to do, doing nHp = potters wheel mj jrt nHp = like doing the potter's wheel = like the action of the potter's wheel awAy = noun = robber m = I think this is the 'm of predication' and is used to identify the subject with something (the robber as the owner of a pile of riches) - it is not translated (S10.6) nb = noun = owner of (S6.9) aHaw = noun = heap, pile (often of riches) awAy m nb aHaw = the robber is the owner of a pile of riches jw ms tA Hr msnH mj jrt nHp awAy m nb aHaw = Surely, the land is spinning around like the action of a potter's wheel. The robber is the owner of a pile of riches ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 16.22 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:54:04 -0500 16.22 transliteration: jsw Swt pw Axtt qbt m Smw translation: Behold, he is an Inundation (season) shade, a cool place in the Harvest (season) This sentence starts off with the proclitic particle 'jsw'. Similar to 'm.k', this particle is frequently translated as "behold". 'Swt pw Axtt qbt m Smw' is a clause with a nominal predicate and is of the 'A pw' type. 'A' is 'Swt Axtt qbt m Smw'. 'Swt' means "shade". 'Axtt' is a nisbe derived from 'Axt' ("Inundation (season)") by appending 't' in agreement with the feminine gender of 'Swt'. 'Swt Axtt' then is a noun phrase of apposition literally meaning "a shade, an Inundation-one". Viewing 'Axtt' as an adjective leads to the more natural translation "Inundation(-season) shade". Like 'Axtt', 'qbt' ("cool place") is in apposition to 'Swt'. 'qbt' is modified by the prepositional phrase 'm Smw', which means "in the Harvest (season)". Putting it together, 'Swt pw Axtt qbt m Smw' means "he is an Inundation shade, a cool place in the Harvest". 16.22 jsw Swt pw Axtt qbt m Smw Look, he is a shade of the Inundation season, a cool place in Harvest season. jsw = "Look", particle (§16.6.4) Swt = "shade" pw demonstrative pronoun Axtt = "Inundation season", noun of time used as an adverb qbt = "cool place", noun from obb, "be cool" m Smw = "in Harvest season", prepositional phrase This is an A pw nominal sentence, introduced by the particle 'jsw'. This particle is similar in meaning to 'm=B7k', but less common. The subject is 'Swt', shade. The next word 'Axtt', "Inundation season" is a noun of time used as an adverb (§8.14). Although Allen's translation is "shade of the Inundation season", it is not a direct genitive, because 'pw' comes between 'Swt' and 'Axtt'. The noun 'qbt' stands in apposition to 'Swt', and it is qualified by the adverbial phrase 'm Smw', "in Harvest season". 16.22 Transcription: jsw Swt pw Axtt qbt m Smw Dissection: > jsw = "behold" (16.6.4) > Swt = "shadow, shade" > pw = A pw sentence (7.9) > Swt pw = "He is shade." > Axtt = "Inundation-season" (9.8) > qbt = "coolness, cool place." N29-D58-X1-W15-N35a > m = preposition "in, during" > Smw = "Harvest-season" (9.8) Translation: literal: "Behold, he is shade, an Inundation-season one; a cool place during Harvest season." Better choice: "Behold, he is Inundation-season shade, a cool place during Harvest-season." 16.22 (read right to left) jsw Swt pw Axtt qbt m Smw jsw - proclitic particle "Look, behold" (section 16.6.4) Swt - noun "shadow, shade" pw - demonstrative (A pw sentence) Axtt - noun, "Inundation" season (flaged by the sun determinative) this has an extra t from the version given elsewhere in the book qbt - noun "coolness, cool place" m - preposition "in" Smw - noun, "Harvest" season This is an A pw sentence. The gloss tells us this is a hymn sung about the king, so the translation is "He is," not "It is". Putting this together we have, "He is shade (in the) Inundation season, a cool place in Harvet season." In the key, Allen says 'Axtt' is a noun in apposition to 'Swt', literally "a shadow, an Inundation (season) one". I didn't get this. ************ Question: What does the extra 't' in 'Axtt' here do? Does this somehow make a nisbe of the noun 'Axt'? ============================================================================== From: "Paul Wheeler" To: "'Ancient Egyptian Language List'" Subject: AEL Reading exercice of a painting from Louvre Museum Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:36:37 +0200 A little exercice I did on a painting from the Louvre Museum, Paris. I would like comments on my reading and grammatical suggestions. Document : Harvest for the Amon temple, Painting from the Ounsou tomb, dynastie XVIII, theban necropolis. Picture : http://phwheeler.free.fr/hiero/doc4.jpg Hieroglyphs reading (not respecting line breaks) : --------------------------- G1 X1:Q3 A9 D40 G43 O34:Aa1 G43 P1:Z2 W24:Z1 R8 R4\#24:.\#24 N18\#24:Z2\#24 D21\#24 [" ..\#1234 "] [" ..\#1234 "] A9 D40 U10:Z2 V28 N35:D36 M34 X1:Z4 U10:Z2 T3 X1:N5 V8 N35:W24 G43 X1 O51:Z2 V22:Y1 D2:Z1 N35:Aa15 O34:Aa15 O34:Y1 P6 D36 G43 M35:Z2 N35 D21:Z1 O34:N35:Z2 N35 G1 N35 G43 O34:Aa1 G43 P1:Z2 G1 X1:Q3 A9 D40 D46:N35 S29 U32 U10:Z2 D2:Z1 S29 D46:Aa12 Z9\#1234:D40\#124 D58 D21 G43 O1:..\#1234 --------------------------- Transliteration: ------------------------ 1- ATp wsxw 2- nw Htp-nTr r 3.4- [...] 5- ATp jt Hna bdt- 6- -HDt Snwwt Mh(.wy) 7- Hr ngsgs 8- aHaw 9- n r=sn 10- nA n 11- wsxw 12- ATp(.wy) 13- dns 14- jt Hr sD 15- r bw-rwty Vocabulary (if someone wants a detailled vocabulary listing, please ask): -------------------- + "r bw-rwty" (l.15) Since I didn't find the expression, I am not sure of my translation. Lit. : to the outside place ? Could it be simply translated "outside", or due to the context "overboard" ? + "sD" (l.14) I am not sure of the hieroglyph reading, but sD is the best I could find out. Grammar: ---------------- 1/5 - ATp : Infinitive as a noun (Allen 14.8) 6- mH(.wy) : subject-stative/pseudoparticiple 3pl (Allen 17.4/5) 7- Hr ngsgs : pseudoverbal Hr + infinitive (Allen 15.2) 8/9 - aHaw n r=sn : adverbial sentence (Allen 10) 12 - ATp(.wy) : subject-stative/pseudoparticiple 3pl (Allen 17.4/5) 13 - dns : adverb ? or adjective ? 14 - jt Hr sD : pseudoverbal Hr + infinitive (Allen 15.2) Translation: ---------------- Loading of the barges of the divine offering for [...the temple of Amon...] Loading of the Barley and Wheat(=white-wheat). The silos/granaries being filled are overflowing and the mounds are level with there opening. These barges are [therefore] heavily loaded and grain is spilling out overboard. Paul H. WHEELER paul@cliohist.net France ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:19:08 +0200 From: ROSMORDUC Serge To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Nectanebo Marianne Luban a écrit : >> > Not usually. Ancient Egyptian names, if the full names are given, >> usually >> > represent a phrase. Most are not very difficult to interpret. But >> there >> > are exceptions. In theophoric names, the name of the deity is >> normally >> > written first and many years ago, Egyptologists took that literally >> until >> > someone figured out what was going on. So old books write the >> names quite >> > differently than we do now. >> >> Another tricky issue is that for pharohs already known from historical >> texts, the practice is to use the historical name instead of a >> transcription of the actual egyptian name. "Nectanebo" at least sounds a >> little bit like 'nxt nb.f' ("Nekhet Nebef"), but this isn't always the >> case. The most famous of these is Greek 'Cheops' from Herodotus for >> 'xwfw' ("Khufu") though I guess in at least in this case the egyptian >> name is being used now. I agree with M. Luban that Kheops is not that bad a rendering for Khufu. The "Ch" is in fact a greek "chi", which wa s at that time probably pronounced like an Egyptian "kh". The "p" in place of the "f" is a rather usual transposition in the Egyptian-to-Greek transcription: the greek phi was a bit too far from an egyptian "f", and indeed the Coptic alphabet has a specific letter for "f". Now, to revert to Cheops vs. khufu, the two vowels of the greek rendering keep the memory of the consonnantic value of the "w". Remember that the full name of Kheops is Xnmw-xw=f-wi "Khnum protects me", and that even rendering xw=f-wi as khuefui is very conventionnal, as the 'w' are rendered as 'u'. Khewafwi would perhaps be closer to the original (using the simple rule that "o" in the late period generally come from an "a"). This being said, I claim no expertise in the domains of phonology and phonetics, so I'll let the matter for now. Names which are currently seen as problematic include "Amenophis" which is most probably in reality a transcription for imn-(m)-ipt, and not imn-Htp, and Chephren, which, on grammatical basis is more likely to be ra-xa=f than xa=f-ra. In the case of Chephren, the interesting bit is that the priests who read the name to the greek travellers where probably victims of hypercorrection. Knowing that often the name of the god was to be read last, they would have applied this wrongly to Chephren. Regards, S. Rosmorduc ============================================================================== From: "Marianne Luban" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Subject: Re: AEL Nectanebo Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 08:25:03 -0700 >From: ROSMORDUC Serge >Names which are currently seen as problematic include "Amenophis" which is >most probably in reality a transcription for imn-(m)-ipt, and not imn-Htp, It would seem that "Amenothes" should be better for "Amenhotep", but I don't think the people of the time of Manetho made much distinction between these names and that includes Merneptah, as well, that name being written "Amenophis", too. Of course, you are right about "imn-m-ipt" but, for some reason, the Tanite king by that name was given in Manetho as "Amenophthis". ==============================================================================