From: "H.V. and Eileen Shultz" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL the sedge and the bee Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:57:19 -0700 AEL members, We need some help on the following; in the list of rulers in Egypt there are four glyphs before the name of each Pharaoh; the two "bread loaf" marks WITH THE SEDGE above one loaf and the BEE above the other. HOW IS THIS written for the lay reader? And how do we know which glyph to start reading from??? Is there a rule to apply? H.V. and Eileen Shultz Brawley California ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:44:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mark-Jan Nederhof Subject: AEL align peasant To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk From: http://www.dfki.uni-sb.de/~nederhof/AEL/peasant/guest32.html A few more lines of translation for the Eloquent Peasant: <171> jmj-rA pr wr nb=j ntk ^ra nb pt ; <171> High steward, my lord, you are Re, lord of the sky, Hna Snwt<172>=k jw Xrt bw-nb jm=k ; with your courtiers. <172> Everyone's needs are with you, # I.e. everyone depends on you. mj <173> nwy ; like <173> the flood. ntk Hapj swAD SAw ; You are the Nileflood that makes the meadows green, (swAD is an active participle.) grg <174> jAwt xbAt ; that restores <174> the ravaged mounds. xsf awAj <175> nD Hr mAr ; Punish theft, <175> protect the wretched. m xpr m w<176>Dnw r sprw ; Do not become a <176> flood to the suppliant. Hm, that sounds a bit strange. A few lines back, the (Nile)flood was praised as something positive, but here it definitely has a negative connotation, perhaps that of drowning the "suppliant". Hannig has also "Rueckflut", but I can't find an English translation for that in any dictionary (any native speakers of German out there who know?) sAw tkn n nHH ; Take heed of the approach of eternity. <177> mr wAH mj Dd ; <177> Desire to last, as is said: "Dd" is likely the passive sDm=f. TAw pw n fnD jrt mAat ; Acting virtuously is breath for the nose. PS I'll be away from the 5th to the 23rd of July. So if any catastrophes happen with AELalight, I won't be here to fix it. Regards, Mark-Jan ============================================================================== From: labores@azboss.net To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:10:01 -0700 Subject: Re: AEL the sedge and the bee On 26 Jun 2001, at 16:57, H.V. and Eileen Shultz wrote: Read 'into the face', that is - from the direction the Bee (in this case) is facing. > AEL members, > We need some help on the following; > in the list of rulers in Egypt there are four > glyphs before the name of each Pharaoh; the > two "bread loaf" marks WITH THE SEDGE above > one loaf and the BEE above the other. HOW IS > THIS written for the lay reader? And how do > we know which glyph to start reading from??? > Is there a rule to apply? > > H.V. and Eileen Shultz > Brawley California ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:29:59 -0500 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk, eef@lists.yale.edu From: Paul Sciortino Subject: AEL request suggestions for Egyptological computing list I am compiling a list of Egyptological computing items and would welcome= correction as well as suggestions for items to include (for example I know= that there have been a number of HyperCard projects but haven't had chance= to track them down yet). The list is still preliminary but can be seen at h= ttp://hieroglyphs.net/000501/html/article.html. Suggestions would be much appreciated. -Paul ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:53:51 -0400 From: Brian Yare Subject: Re: AEL align peasant To: Ancient Egyptian Language List << Hannig has also "Rueckflut", but I can't find an English translation for that in any dictionary (any native speakers of German out there who know?) >> Not a native German speaker - not even particularly competent, but I would guess that to be a "back-flood" based on the two words combined. I look forward to being proved very wrong! Brian Yare ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:40:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mark-Jan Nederhof Subject: Re: AEL align peasant To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk > Not a native German speaker - not even particularly competent, but I > would guess that to be a "back-flood" based on the two words combined. Thanks, Brian. It sounds reasonable, but I was not aware of the existence of this word in English either. I presume it means that the water withdraws itself again after a flood. (Isn't "reflux" the more common word for that?) The passage in the Eloquent Peasant may then suggest the "suppliant" being drawn into the river. Might that be it? Mark-Jan ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:28:01 -0400 From: "Allen Richardson" To: Subject: AEL Hieroglyph I am working on the translation of an inscription on a shabti circa 600 BCE. The inscription is brief and begins with praise to Osiris. I am assuming that the rest will include the name and perhaps title of the person it was made for. One of the remaining hieroglyphs doesn't show up in Gardiner or in any other text that I can find. It is three connected lines, with one stroke on each side and one overhead. The line on the left side is heavier than on the right. It looks like a doorway for lack of a better metaphor. If anyone has seen this before or has any ideas I would appreciate it. Is it a determinative? Allen Richardson Cedar Crest College USA ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:55:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Quintero To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: AEL Scarab hieroglyphs Hello Fellow List Members, I have some scarabs inscribed with hieroglyphs that were given to my father about forty years ago. I have recently acquired them from him. As if the language and grammar were not enough of a challenge, the actual characters have been poorly inscribed. I thought interpretation might be a fun exercise for fellow list members. I have placed three scans at the following location (Yahoo photo site): http://photos.yahoo.com/smq4 Click the photo album "scarabs" in the upper left hand corner.This will take you to the thumbnails (scarab 1, scarab 2, and scarab 3) one could enlarge by clicking on them. I have refrained from commenting on what I think the inscriptions mean to avoid influencing ones interpretation. I apologize in advance for any Yahoo advertisements that might appear on the site. Thank You and Regards, Stephen Quintero Tallahassee, FL squintero@pol.net ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:34:02 +1000 From: Jenny Carrington To: AEL Subject: AEL Hieroglyph Hi Allen, > One of the remaining hieroglyphs doesn't show up in Gardiner or in any other text that I can find. It is three connected lines, with one stroke on each side and one overhead. The line on the left side is heavier than on the right. It looks like a doorway for lack of a better metaphor.< Sounds like it might be a simplified version of W17. (xnt) Used for an epithet of Osiris, xnty imntyw, Foremost of the Westerners. m Htp Jenny Carrington ============================================================================== From: "H.V. and Eileen Shultz" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL align peasant Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:30:12 -0700 Why the suppliant? Wouldn't it make more sense that the flood was held back for the suppliant... he was helped by the person who held back the flood? H.V. and Eileen Shultz Brawley California 92227 > > > > Not a native German speaker - not even particularly competent, but I > > would guess that to be a "back-flood" based on the two words combined. > > Thanks, Brian. It sounds reasonable, but I was not aware of the existence > of this word in English either. I presume it means that the water > withdraws itself again after a flood. (Isn't "reflux" the more common > word for that?) The passage in the Eloquent Peasant may then suggest > the "suppliant" being drawn into the river. Might that be it? > > Mark-Jan > > ============================================================================== From: "H.V. and Eileen Shultz" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL the sedge and the bee Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 20:57:56 -0700 Reading words in boxed order (bee,sedge,bread,bread) > Read 'into the face', that is - from the direction the Bee (in this > case) is facing. ... starting WITH the bee??? In other words, when we have 4 hieroglyphs in a box pattern, where do we start pronouncing? (I may not be asking this clearly... hence the confusion). Thanks to anyone for help. Hercel Shultz History Dept. ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:07:46 -0500 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Kristin Parsons Subject: Re: AEL Scarab hieroglyphs You might try to make imprints like with paper and a pencil so you will be able to have something to work with. It might also help you figure out what those hieroglyphs actually are. At least you may be able to decipher what some of them are. At 04:55 PM 6/28/2001 -0400, you wrote: >--- See http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ for AEL resources. >--- Copyright in the following belongs to the undersigned. >--- To reply privately, send to squintero@pol.net > >Hello Fellow List Members, > >I have some scarabs inscribed with hieroglyphs that were given to my >father about forty years ago. I have recently acquired them from him. >As if the language and grammar were not enough of a challenge, the >actual characters have been poorly inscribed. I thought >interpretation might be a fun exercise for fellow list members. I >have placed three scans at the following location (Yahoo photo site): > >http://photos.yahoo.com/smq4 > >Click the photo album "scarabs" in the upper left hand corner.This >will take you to the thumbnails (scarab 1, scarab 2, and scarab 3) >one could enlarge by clicking on them. >I have refrained from commenting on what I think the inscriptions >mean to avoid influencing ones interpretation. I apologize in >advance for any Yahoo advertisements that might appear on the site. > >Thank You and Regards, > >Stephen Quintero >Tallahassee, FL >squintero@pol.net ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 13:40:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: Mark-Jan Nederhof Subject: Re: AEL align peasant To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk H.V. and Eileen Shultz wrote: > Why the suppliant? Wouldn't it make more > sense that the flood was held back for the > suppliant... he was helped by the person who > held back the flood? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. As I see it, the text says literally: m xpr m wDnw r sprw Do not become a flood (or back-flood) to the suppliant. Do you propose a different interpretation? I don't see another way to translate "xpr" here than by "become". Mark-Jan ============================================================================== From: "A.K. Eyma" To: "AEL" Subject: AEL jr(j)=f dj 'nx Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:06:20 +0200 Dear all, For those of you who read the article of Peter Beylage about this formula in GM 181: I noticed that on a stela of Thutmosis III of which someone showed me a picture past week, that there seems to be an option D which in Beylage's terminology would be: (K) // KH // G + jr(j)=f dj 'nx That is, before the image of the king (no name given, hence (K)) it says as cultic act (KH): jr.t qbH snTr and after the image of the god it is says: jmn jr=f dj 'nx so the scene should apparantly be read: jr.t qbH snTr (n) jmn jr=f dj 'nx "The doing of libation and incensing [by the king] (to) Amun, so that he [= the king] may achieve a 'given life'." Agreed? Or would this be a variant of Beylage's option C? Aayko Eyma ==============================================================================