From: To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:52:42 +0200 Subject: Re: AEL Something useful! Chad Bochan wrote: > Maybe it would also be possible, given that > there are Egyptian hieroglyphic fonts floating all over the web, to include in > such a list the hieroglyphic representations of English words as well? I would > have no idea how to do these things. Does anyone else know if this is > possible? I'm busy doing just that, in my spare time. I have the Beinlich list and some English lists and translating them in Dutch, English, German and Hieroglyphs. For the Hieroglyphs I plan to use the GlyphBasic TTF fonts. When WinGlyph 2 comes available I will take a serious look at that, to see if i can be of any help. Since I do this in my spare time, it will take a while (there are more than 24,000 entries and I've done about 2,000 of them, no glyphs yet...) If anyone knows a way to speed things (like having the Hieroglyphs of the Beinlich list) it would be much appreciated. regards, Marc van Kollenburg e-mail: m.v.kollenburg@kbi.nl ============================================================================== From: "Chad Bochan" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:42:12 +1000 Subject: Re: AEL Something useful! Marc wrote: 7F00,0000,0000> I have the Beinlich list and some English lists and translating them in Dutch, English, > German and Hieroglyphs. For the Hieroglyphs I plan to use the > GlyphBasic TTF fonts. When WinGlyph 2 comes available I will take a > serious look at that, to see if i can be of any help. ... > If anyone knows a way to speed things (like having the Hieroglyphs > of the Beinlich list) it would be much appreciated. Hey Marc, In relation to getting the hieroglyphs of the Beinlich list quickly done, there is one way that I tried that worked ... if you automatically convert the Beinlich list into a table in a word processor, with separate columns for the transliteration, the definition and the reference, you can select the transliteration column, copy it, and paste it in a new column in hieroglyphics. How do you do that, you ask? Here's a way that I did it (I'm also mucking around with a hieroglyphic wordlist): Download the Beinlich list from the ftp site, and you'll notice that each entry is coded in the following way: @ [transliteration] & [definition] !! [Reference] That is, the parts of each entry are separated by certain characters (@, &, and !!). With a word processor, select the whole list (or do it in parts if you prefer) and convert the list into a table. For example, in Microsoft Word (ver 6 or 7): 2. (a) copy and paste the Beinlich list into a new file. Go to the 'Edit' menu, and select 'Replace'. You want to replace all of the '!!' separator characters with '&' characters. 2. (b) Select the whole lot and go to the 'Table' menu and select 'Convert text to table'. Get it to 'separate text' at 'other', and make that a '&' character. It should then magically convert the list into a table. 2. (c) For aesthetic reasons, you may want to get rid of all the @ characters in the first column. You can just 'Replace all' @ characters with nothing in the 'replace with' box, if you know what I mean. 3. Now, select the transliteration column -- the one you want to generate your hieroglyphs from -- and go ahead and generate those hieroglyphs. How do you do this? Either you can copy the transliteration column, paste it in a new column, and then change that column to a hieroglyphic font. Or you can copy the transliteration column, paste it in Glyph for Windows, get your hieroglyphs that way (that's what I did). You need to play around a bit to get the latter way to work though. For example, you need to insert a code after each transliterated word to get it to break (I think it needs a '!' or something). Putting in these characters can also be done automatically in Microsoft Word, using the 'replace all' command. For those of you who aren't interested in the above, I apologise profusely for thwetime it took to explain this. I do hope owever that this info may go some way to helping some much more able person to create a wordlist for the AEL website, or for somewhere else that is accessible to all of us. Chad. :) ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:13:30 -0400 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Gerald Kadish Subject: Re: AEL Weni 23-26 Mark: The Englsih is still without punctuation. Have you tried to take the second line in each couplet as a conditional: "This army returned in safety, after it had . . . ."? -- Gerry Gerald E. Kadish Professor of History and Near Eastern Studies Department of History Binghamton University Binghamton, NY 13902-6000 (607) 777-2488 e-mail address: kadishg@binghamton.edu ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:04:46 +0300 (EET DST) To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: ioniccentre@hol.gr (Isidoros) Subject: Re: AEL Something useful! Marc, Chad, thanks. It all sounds very promissing. Three things t mind: Could you not co-operate, and with some more fellows, working out the technical details, and then move on to the substantive work, devide it up, and work on sections of it simulataneously, possibly under Marc's co-ordination and editorial supervision, toward a speedier, "AEL" type of project? Are you sure there are no such lectical lists done by anyone else? Could you kindly make certain, from the beginning, that some old-fashioned Mac faithful will not be left out of the "Wndows" Microsoft platform you seem to operate from? Thanks. Best wishes, Isidoros Isidoros ioniccentre@hol.gr ============================================================================== From: To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:20:39 +0200 Subject: AEL Database Chad Bochan wrote: copy and paste it in a new column in hieroglyphics. Is it really that simple?! IMHO the Hieroglyph font would only convert 1 letter to 1 glyph. Which font do you use for this? >paste it in Glyph for Windows, get your hieroglyphs My problem with WinGlyph is, that I have the demo version (I'm waiting for release 2.0), which doesn't recognize all 2 and 3 letter signs (I do not have the extended library) What keeps me busy lately is, making a font devided in to: A Man and his occupations, B Woman and her occupations, etc. and writing a program around it which can translate transliteration and Gardiner codes to glyphs. Although 'the net' has lots of Hieroglyphic fonts, I've not seen this particular order (yet). Does anyone know the existence of it? CCER has some fonts, but these seem to be put rather random together. If anyone has all the glyphs in fonts or as vector drawings (EPS, AI, CDR, WMF, etc.) I would like to talk to you. I'm also looking for a file in which transliteration codes are linked with Gardiner codes. Isidoros wrote: Could you not co-operate..... I'm game..... no such lectical lists done by anyone else? Not that I know, there are some hyperstacks, but on my Windows PC those won't run. Mac faithful will not be left out I could try, but I don't know a lot of MAC databases..... met vriendelijke groet, Marc van Kollenburg Kluwer Deventer tel. (0570) 64 75 60 fax. (0570) 62 71 14 e-mail: m.v.kollenburg@kbi.nl ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:47:30 -0400 From: Raven Brooke To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Database Dear Marc, I'm not sure I follow what you're looking for in a font, but it sounds like Glyphscribe might be it; it is available from Al Kanda at: ALKANDA@compuserve.com Hope this helps! Yours, Raven ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:21:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "H. Lawson 2" To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Database Marc, I have not the glyphs in vector base, but I could very easily do it. I'm thinking of making a font for myself because I haven't seen one that can convert to outlines (and none that seem to be "organized" for a keyboard). I work with Illustrator everyday, I just don't yet have Fontographer or anything to the effect. E-mail me sometime and I'll see how I can help you out. Howard Lawson II sfib8@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ============================================================================== From: "Jenny Carrington" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: AEL Weni. L19-28 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:54:36 PDT Hello, I have recently joined the list (and the net) and have been finding my way around these last two weeks. I started learning hieroglyphs from Gardiners Grammar about ten years ago. It may take me a while to get used to the Manual de Codage format, but I am looking forward to working with others on the translation of texts. Is anyone working on The Dispute Between a Man and his Ba? There are a few lines that puzzle me. I am also interested in the Festival of Sokar and the Festival of Min from the walls of the Temple of Ramesses III at Medinet Habu. I have an illustration of the images and text of Sokar which I have partly translated but Min is hard to find. Can anyone send me a copy of the complete scenes of the Festival of Min? Here is my version of Weni from Lines 19 to 28 L19. ink wn iri.n=sn sxr sT iAt(=i) m pr-aA imy-r xnt-S n mt n st It was I who made plans for them, while my office was as overseer of the palace estates, because of (my) loyalty to the throne. ir nfr-n dd wa im m snw=f so that no one there fought with his brother L 20. ir nfr-n nHm wa im xAD Tbw.ty m-a Hr wA.t so that no one there took away dough or sandals from one who was upon the road ir nfr-n iTT wa im dAiw m niw.t nb.t so that no one there stole a loincloth from any town L 21. ir nfr-n iTT wa im waty nbt m-a s.w nb.w so that no one there stole any goat from anyone mAa=k(wi) sn m iw mH.t sbA n ii-Htp war.t n.t Hrw-nb-mAa.t sT wi m iA.t tn I led them from the Northern Island, the Gate of Yihotep, the desert plateau of Horus-Lord of Truth, while I was in this office L 22. //////////// x.t nb.t .......... anything. wbA.n(=I) Tnw Tsw.t iptn n sp wbA.t n bAk nb I revealed the number of these troops. Never before had it been revealed by any servant. ii.n mSa pn (L23) m Htp xbA.n=f tA Hry.w-Sa this army returned in peace, it had destroyed the land of the Sand Dwellers. ii.n mSa pn m Htp pds.n=f tA Hry.w-Sa this army returned in peace, it had flattened the land of the Sand Dwellers. L 24. ii.n mSa pn m Htp sSn.n=f wn.w.t=f this army returned in peace, it had torn down its forts. ii.n mSa pn m Htp Sa.n=f (L25) dAb(.w)=f iArr(.w).t=f this army returned in peace, it had cut down its figs and its vines. ii.n mSa pn m Htp st.n=f x.t m [Ts.w.t]=f nb.w this army returned in peace, it threw fire amongst all its [troops] ii.n mSa pn (L26) m Htp smA.n=f Ts.w.t im=f m Dba.w aSA.w this army returned in peace, it killed its troops there in many ten thousands. ii.n mSa pn m Htp ini.n=f Ts.w.t (27) im=f aSA.t wr.t m sqr.w-anx this army returned in peace, it brought from its troops there a great many prisoners of war. Hs wi Hm=f Hr=s r x.t nb.t hAb wi Hm=f ir mAa mSa pn His majesty praised me for it more than anything. His majesty sent me to lead this army (28) m sp 5 ir dr tA Hry.w-Sa ir Tnw bST=sn m Tsw.t iptn iri=k(wi) ir Hs.t wi Hm=f Hr=s 5 times to subdue the land of the Sand Dwellers,every time they rebelled, with these troops. I acted so that his majesty praised me for it. Comments and corrections welcome. Note: Line 24 is incorrectly numbered in AEL hieroglyph page #4. Compare with inscription. m Htp, Jenny Carrington, Australia. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ============================================================================== From: To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 13:15:35 +0200 Subject: Re: AEL Database Dear Raven, What kind of font is Glyphscribe? can you tell me more about it? (like: is it free, how is it organized) regards, Marc van Kollenburg e-mail: m.v.kollenburg@kbi.nl ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:28:31 +0100 From: rosmord@iut.univ-paris8.fr (Serge Rosmorduc) To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Database Well, maybe I'm advocating my own work, but have a look at my article in "Informatique et Egyptologie XII" (on the CCER pages). It might be usable to do what you want, plus it's cross platform. Regards, Serge Rosmorduc ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:56:46 -0700 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Database Serge Rosmorduc wrote: > Well, maybe I'm advocating my own work, but have a look at my article in > "Informatique et Egyptologie XII" (on the CCER pages). It might be usable to do what you want, plus it's cross platform. I read your paper a few days ago, along with the abstracts of the other papers presented at the conference. It seems that everyone is aiming in pretty much the same direction, but there seems to be a lot of duplication of effort and potentials for conflicting specifications resulting from the projects. I did consider sending an open letter to the conference participants, pointing out that there are non-professionals who are also working toward the same basic goal, and seem to be getting the results out where people can use them faster (and on zero budget) than the professionals. As to TKSesh: it isn't currently available and the fonts are horrible (though you did mention fixing this problem). At the moment programs like WinGlyph and MacScribe make excellent interfaces for entering and reading hieroglyphic texts (and ALMOST compatible with your database). There are also text analysis programs available which, while not intended for use with Egyptian, can do a workable job of such interesting things as wordlist and concordance generation, statistical analysis (word frequencies, frequency distribution, comparisons of these between several texts, etc.). -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:45:37 -0700 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Database H. Lawson 2 wrote: > Marc, I have not the glyphs in vector base, but I could very easily do it. > I'm thinking of making a font for myself because I haven't seen one that > can convert to outlines (and none that seem to be "organized" for a > keyboard). I work with Illustrator everyday, I just don't yet have > Fontographer or anything to the effect. E-mail me sometime and I'll see > how I can help you out. Before people go rushing of in all directions at once, I should point out a few facts: 1. You can't turn a transliteration (like in the Beinlich list) into Egyptian hieroglyphics simply by applying a hieroglyphic font. The transliteration represents only the consonantal phonemes, and leaves out much information carried in the original hieroglyphic spelling. Example, the word "it" in a transliteration could be "father" or "barley," however in hieroglyphs these are represented differently: i-t:f-A1 "father" and U10 "barley" (It would make my life much easier if this were possible!) 2) You need over 700 characters in a reasonably complete (i.e. useful) hieroglyphic font. Fonts for general use can have a maximum of 256 characters, so you would need multiple fonts. 3) Hieroglyphic is a space-filling writing system, not a linear one like our alphabet. Our computers are set up to work with linear scripts, and basic typing isn't going to work, even if you did come up with a scheme for mapping that many characters to the keyboard. 4) There already exists a way of encoding hieroglyphic texts for computer use (Manuel de Codage) and sets of TrueType fonts (GlyphBasic and Extended) and "word-processing" programs which make use of these for displaying and printing hieroglyphic texts (WinGlyph, MacScribe). The encoding system and fonts are available for free, and there are demo versions of the "word-processing" software available free. 5) It is possible to create images of the hieroglyphic spelling of each word in the Beinlich list using the resources mentioned in (4) above, but it would require a lot of time and care. The same is true of translating the German into English - automatic translation just doesn't do it (if it did I'd be there a couple of years ago!) As Serge has mentioned, there was this month a conference in Holland which seems to have concentrated very much on the topics being discussed under this thread. The professionals are working toward it -unfortunately, the rest of us are in a rather unprofessional hurry for results - I wonder who will get there first? -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ============================================================================== From: To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:03:21 +0200 Subject: Re: AEL Database Dear Howard, Stephen and Serge, Howard, I don't have the Gardiner book yet, so I can't give you any pagenumbers. As Stephen said there are hundreds of sings, so maybe it's better to re-arange the existing fonts accordiing to Gardiner. Serge, I've read your paper too and it looks promising. You advocating your own work is NOT a problem IMHO. There should be more exchange of knowledge between profs and 'amateurs'. When your program is available for testing, I like to volunteer. Stephen, I think sending an open letter to the participants is a good idea. Maybe we can establish some sort of cooperation, or at least coordinate some work and share resources. Maybe some of us can even write some add-ons for existing programs (Like an database wich can output directly fo Winglyph instead of writing a GLY-file, start WinGlyph, opening it and examine it) You mentioned the existing of a *free* encoding system and fonts; where can you get that encoding system (pref. electronic). The fonts are presumably GlyphBasicA - D. Have you or anyone else an idea on the logic in these fonts? The demo's of the 'wordprocessors' are free, but they are rather expensive to register the complete set, unless you are an registered student of AEL. As far of the translation from German in English, your right about the amount of work, but a few months ago I bought a CD-ROM wich can translate from and to Dutch, English, German and French. It's true that it can't be done automatic, but I've wrote a crude little program wich support 'drag and drop' which saves a lot of typing (and thinking!). Ofcourse it's not 100% proof, but it's a rather fast way to translate. Ofcourse is some knowledge of German and English necessary. I think we would *all* be helped by an open standard and access to standard resources (fonts, DLL's, databases, etc.). regards, Marc van Kollenburg e-mail: m.v.kollenburg@kbi.nl ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:05:20 -0400 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Gerald Kadish Subject: Re: AEL Weni. L19-28 I'd be interested to learn what you think `to reveal' (as an interpretation of wb3, l. 22) means. What is Weni actually telling us? -- GEK Gerald E. Kadish Professor of History and Near Eastern Studies Department of History Binghamton University Binghamton, NY 13902-6000 (607) 777-2488 e-mail address: kadishg@binghamton.edu ============================================================================== From: To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:59:22 +0200 Subject: AEL Queens names Hello all, Currently i'm reading about the lives and times of Akhenaten and this has raised a question: Almost all kingsnames can be found (i.e. WinGlyph) in Hieroglyphs, but how about the names of their wifes? it's much harder to find those. I've tried the dictonary at CCER, but it's off-line for a while. Even harder to find are pet-/nicknames. I'm curious about the hieroglyphic representation of the following names: - Meketaten - Meritaten - Mayati (pet-/nickname of Meritaten) - Ankhesenpaaten - Ankhesenamun Does anyone know how these were written or where to find it? regards, Marc van Kollenburg e-mail: m.v.kollenburg@kbi.nl ============================================================================== From: Michael Tilgner To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL Interpretations of the "Shipwrecked Sailor" Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 00:12:23 +0200 Dear list-members, every egyptologist and every friend of Ancient Egyptian reads "The Shipwrecked Sailor" one day. Inevitably they interpret the story in different manners. (1) Golenischeff (1881): found that it has much in common with the Odyssey and the story of Sinbad the Sailor - despite the protest of Maspero. (2) Erman (1923): A fairy tale of simplest kind, but for educated readers. Lefebvre (1949) had the same opinion. He added that the form is not as careful as that of Sinuhe; for example: many sentences are beginning with aHa.n. (3) Lefebvre (1949): recalled the voyages of the Egyptians to the Red Sea, which were dangerous and gave plenty to talk about with fantastic embellishments. (Odyssey, Sinbad the Sailor). (4) Pieper (1928): psychological story with a philosophy of life. - Others like Wainwright (1946) tried to locate the concrete island of the shipwrecked sailor. (5) Spiegel (1952): fictitious tale; simple form [of syntax]; nested composition; artistic development of a simple motif; didactic tendence. (6) Lanczkowski (1960): eschatological themes at two places; the creation of the world will be reversed in the last days by the sinking of the island in the primeval waters. (7) Brunner-Traut (1963): is not an adventurous fairy tale of sailors, but has an eschatological background and testifies to a spiritual view of god. (8) Otto (1966): has a literary intention, does not want to amuse only, but is also aiming at interpreting world and life. Literary fairy tale. Otto interpreted the last sentence in an optimistic sense: Man must accept the fate imposed by God; the attitude toward his fate will determine the outcome ... in fulfillment of that what God has in mind with him ... teachings, wisdom, and experience will help. Therefore the story conveys a certain Egyptian ethics. (9) Goedicke (1974): moralizing story concerning the fate of man between life and death. The commander is embodying the existential (earthly) aspect of man, the follower the transcendental one. The storm is a metaphor for a tragic blow of fate. The ship returning home is a metaphor of death. The real home of man is in the spiritual, not in the existential sphere. - Every detail has a metaphorical meaning. (10) Baines (1982): did not accept the allegorical meaning proposed by Goedicke. He pointed to the nested composition of the story to show that its author had artificial means of styling at his disposal. (11) Goedicke (1980): The serpent symbolizes fate. The serpent cannot be identified with the King, nor with Re or Atum. (12) Bryan (1979): instructive story. The real hero is the serpent; the shipwrecked sailor is a comical bad example. (13) Derchain-Urtel (1974): All serpents of the island are the 74 (or 75) forms (xprw) of Re. Together they are Re. The serpent of the shipwrecked sailor is only part of Re, namely his setting aspect (Re-Atum). The little daughter is Maat, daughter of Re; she guarantees the new beginning. The island of Ka is not an earthly island, but one of the netherworld. The serpent (Atum) will retreat to his own mythical primeval times; once and for all. The Shipwrecked Sailor survives like Osiris; he continues the ordered world with the help of Maat. (14) Kurth (1987): the disappearance of Re-Atum is not related to mythical primeval times, but to the daily cycle of the sun. Punt was in the East or South-East as seen by the Egyptians, the location of the rising sun. The island lies in the West, the location of the setting sun. Skeptical point of view (last sentence). Few pages of text - and so many interpretations! They range between "it is a story as it is" and "a story full of symbolic meanings"; they also reflect the spirit of the times of the interpreters. So you may add your own interpretation. It is as good as any! [Thanks to Dieter Kurth, "Zur Interpretation der Geschichte des Schiffbruechigen", in: Studien zur altaegyptischen Kultur, Vol. 14, pp. 167-179 (1987)] At last "Tilgner's interpretation": The "Shipwrecked Sailor" is an account of ... the extinction of dinosaurs! All fits perfectly: The serpent is obviously a dinosaur; the star destroying nearly all his children is a comet or meteor; the surviving daughter is the dinosaur which evolved to birds; the island was near Yucatan! How the Ancient Egyptians could know? The dinosaurs became extinct 60 million years ago? Don't argue with statistics! No theory is perfect :) Best wishes, Michael Tilgner mtilgner@baan.nl ============================================================================== From: "Jenny Carrington" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Weni. L19-28 Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 05:19:26 PDT Greetings Gerald, You wrote; > I'd be interested to learn what you think `to reveal' (as an >interpretation of wb3, l. 22) means. What is Weni actually telling us? > -- GEK I must admit I wasnt sure about this word but I used it in the sense of making known the number of troups. Gardiner gives its meaning as to open, and Faulkner has to reveal as well as open. I felt that Lichtheims translation as determined implies merely counting the troops and does not contain the full meaning of wbA. Budges dictionary has a similar word with a determinative of an eye meaning to open the eyes, to look, to gaze, to spy into, to examine. Perhaps reviewed the number of these troops would fit better in a military situation, after the king had assembled the army and put Weni in command. m Htp, Jenny Carrington ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:49:22 -0700 From: Patrick De Smet - Rodrigues To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Database Stephen Fryer wrote: [snip] > As to TKSesh: it isn't currently available and the fonts are horrible (though you did mention fixing this problem). At the > moment programs like WinGlyph and MacScribe make excellent interfaces for entering and reading hieroglyphic texts (and > ALMOST compatible with your database). There are also text analysis programs available which, while not intended for use > with Egyptian, can do a workable job of such interesting things as wordlist and concordance generation, statistical analysis > (word frequencies, frequency distribution, comparisons of these between several texts, etc.). Dear Stephen, There *is* a text analysis program specifically developed for use with AE texts. It is called THOT and is designed by Hans van den Berg and Jochen Hallof. It is --until now-- a DOS program and is quite rudimentary, but it does what it promises. It generates wordlists, thesauri, vocabularies... Of course, the AE texts have to be encoded according to the rules of the "Manual" *and* according to the rules set out by the makers (which are fully compatible with the former). For more information, contact Hans van den Berg at the CCER (Utrecht University): Yours, Patrick De Smet - Rodrigues udjat@skynet.be Udjat, Eye in the Sky ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 15:03:56 -0400 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Gerald Kadish Subject: Re: AEL Weni. L19-28 Dear Jenny: Thanks for the reply to my question. The verb wb3 fundamentally means `to open'. `Reveal' is not an unlikely extended meaning, but it has never made much sense to me. As you apparently recognized, Weni lays claim to doing something not normally done by someone of his standing or rank with respect to a military contingent. All sorts of solutions have been suggested. My own is to be found in the Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, vol. 52 (1966):23-33. It has not gained much acceptance, but you might find it of interest. GEK Gerald E. Kadish Professor of History and Near Eastern Studies Department of History Binghamton University Binghamton, NY 13902-6000 (607) 777-2488 e-mail address: kadishg@binghamton.edu ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:25:58 -0700 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Interpretations of the "Shipwrecked Sailor" Michael Tilgner wrote: > every egyptologist and every friend of Ancient Egyptian reads "The > Shipwrecked Sailor" one day. Inevitably they interpret the story in > different manners. > Few pages of text - and so many interpretations! They range between "it is a > story as it is" and "a story full of symbolic meanings"; they also reflect > the spirit of the times of the interpreters. Thank you for this Michael. There are a couple of comments I would like to make: 1) My experience with English writings is that peoples' interpretations or analyses of them usually tell more about the person doing the analysis than tha intent of the author. I wrote some poetry when I was in University, and what people thought they saw in it was absolutely astounding to the author! So generally, unless the author makes it quite clear otherwise, just take it as it appears to be - you're probably closer to the author's intent that way. 2) There were several who commented on the simple syntax and repetitive use of the constructions using the aHa.n auxiliary (particle - Loprieno). In fact the story of the Boating Party from pWestcar uses it with double the frequency. In both stories the distribution is not even through the story, and in fact shows a similar pattern. I have proposed that it is possible that it was used as a story-telling device to make the action more fast-paced. (It is only used in action sequences.) > At last "Tilgner's interpretation": The "Shipwrecked Sailor" is an account > of ... the extinction of dinosaurs! All fits perfectly: The serpent is > obviously a dinosaur; the star destroying nearly all his children is a comet > or meteor; the surviving daughter is the dinosaur which evolved to birds; > the island was near Yucatan! > > How the Ancient Egyptians could know? The dinosaurs became extinct 60 > million years ago? Don't argue with statistics! No theory is perfect :) Well, I suppose Thoth showed them the records in the Scroll of Thoth. But how he managed to get from Yucatan to Egypt in only 2 months is a true mystery! -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:45:13 -0700 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Database m.v.kollenburg@kbi.nl wrote: > You mentioned the existing of a *free* encoding system and fonts; > where can you get that encoding system (pref. electronic). The specification is called the Manuel de Codage and you can get a detailed version of it from: http://www.ccer.ggl.ruu.nl/codage/codage.htm > The fonts > are presumably GlyphBasicA - D. Have you or anyone else an idea on > the logic in these fonts? If you look at them, they are mostly in Gardiner sequence, though not entirely. I presume the deviations had something to do with the way the lookup tables work. Beyond that you'll have to ask Hans van den Berg. > The demo's of the 'wordprocessors' are free, but they are rather > expensive to register the complete set, unless you are an registered > student of AEL. Well, it's better than nothing. I manage to survive with the demo version of WinGlyph, not being a registered student of anything. > I think we would *all* be helped by an open standard and access to > standard resources (fonts, DLL's, databases, etc.). Actually, I thnk that there is a lot of labour-intensive work in the AEL field which isn't getting done for lack of funding and because the professionals have more intersting things to do that require their greater skills and knowledge. I think there are probably a number of people who might work on a volunteer basis, with the internet as a communications medium, to help out with some of this. A fairly obvious one is simply getting all the texts into an electronic data base, and proof-reading them once entered. -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:09:53 -0400 From: Raven Brooke To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Database Dear Marc, Your best bet for real information on glyphscribe is to contact Al directly: he would probably be happy to send you the help file. Meanwhile, in answer to your previous questions: While not free, it is very modestly priced in relation to all the others I've seen, the price being the same for everyone. As for arrangement, the phonetic signs are divided by mono-, bi- and tri-literal; the determinatives are arranged as "man and his Occupations", etc. The only bad news is that the win 95 version (which will include the ability to enter signs by Gardiner designation) is still in production. Hope this helps! : ) Yours, Raven m.v.kollenburg@kbi.nl wrote: > > Dear Raven, > > What kind of font is Glyphscribe? can you tell me more about it? > (like: is it free, how is it organized) > > regards, > Marc van Kollenburg > e-mail: m.v.kollenburg@kbi.nl ============================================================================== From: "Jenny Carrington" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Weni. L19-28 Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 03:05:34 PDT Greetings Gerald, I would like to read your article putting forward your solution to the problem of the verb wbA, but I do not have access to the journal. Could you please elaborate. m Htp, Jenny Carrington. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ==============================================================================