From: "Marianne Luban" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:52:03 GMT To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Subject: Re: AEL Teachings of Ptahhotep I think we left off here... 32. pAw sDm n nTrw "the ones who listened to the gods". I think Serge already discussed this "pAw" It refers to the ancestors, the aforementioned "imiw HAt". 33. ix irrt n=k mitt I think it is literally "what shall be done for you likewise" but I think it must be a wish for a future benefice, something like "May the same be done for you" [as was for them--those who obeyed the will of the gods]. I hope I have now understood "irrt" but, if not, I'm sure someone will let me know if there is no imperfect participle here. That term "ix" is used a number of different ways and it's a good idea to look it up and become acquainted with them. As Gardiner says, "It introduces a future desired consequence" but is not always easy to translate into English. I think the best translation is "Which shall be done for you...." 34. dr-tw Snw m rxyt "that one drive away [dr] troubles among the people" For "Snw" see Hannig, bottom of column b, page 825. But better "In order to drive away troubles from the people". "troubles" is only one of the English terms that "Snw" could stand for. The "rxyt" are, of course, the common people--as opposed to the nobles. I suppose it is as Serge suggested--the son will succeed the present vizier, Ptahhotep, in the ancint Egyptian manner and the commoners can only benefit from the son's right doing. For all that one should see the "Duties of the Vizier" as written down in the tomb of Rekhmire, for one. You know...this Ptahhotep text is very long. So far we have just done t= he introduction! If more people are not going to attempt it, it may tur= n into a long job for the same few people. Maybe a shorter piece....? Marianne Luban http://thetimetravelerreststop.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================== To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Subject: Re: AEL Teachings of Ptahhotep Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 06:38:45 -0400 From: ahatnakht@aol.com You know...this Ptahhotep text is very long. So far we have just done the ntroduction! If more people are not going to attempt it, it may turn into a ong job for the same few people. Maybe a shorter piece....? You are probably right. I'd love to join - Ptahotep being very high on my list of texts to translate - but with term having started and essays having to be handed in in quick succession (and a couple of other texts relevant to essays to translate first...) I unfortunately don't have the time at the moment. It propbably isn't necessary to rush through this anyway, and no harm done if those who translate at the moment just do a few lines every now and then, rather than continuously... I'll certainly join in from the end of March onwards. Tilly ahatnakht@aol.com ============================================================================== From: "Jenny Carrington" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Teachings of Ptahhotep Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:29:41 +1100 (30) ix Dd.i n.f mdw sDmyw Then I may say to him the words of the judges, (31) sxrw imyw hAt the plans of those of former times, (32) pAw sDm n nTrw who listened to the gods. (33) ix irt n.k mitt Then may the like be done for you, (34) dr tw Snw m rxyt so the troubles of the people may be subdued, (35) bAk n.k tAwy and the Two Lands may work for you. ======== Marianne: >You know...this Ptahhotep text is very long. So far we have just done the >introduction! If more people are not going to attempt it, it may turn into >a long job for the same few people. Maybe a shorter piece....? < I'm quite happy to keep going with Ptahhotep for a while, see how far we get. But there's no reason why the list can't have a second shorter text on the go, is there? m Htp Jenny ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 03:31:41 -0500 From: Robert Myers To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Teachings of Ptahhotep Here is section 2, but without the grammatical notes: +iMaxim 2+s-! +i36+s-$r-D&d-i:N35-U36-1:N35-nTr-1-p:N35-$b-! +tDd in Hm n nTr pn+s-! +lSo said his divine majesty:+s-! +i37+s-dwA&A-A24-i-r:k-sw-W-|5.5-r-S43A-d:t-A2-Xr:r-HAt:t*1-! +tsbA ir.k sw r mdt Xr HAt+s-! +lInstruct him then concerning the words from the past,+s-! +i[38]+s-Dr:r-N41:z:t-A3-k-! +tDr Hmzt.k+s-! +lUntil he is trained,+s-! +i39+s-i-x:Y1-ir:f-b-i-N41:F18-Y1:3-N35-ms-s-w-B4-A1*B1:3-sr-w-A1:Z2B-! +tix iri.f biA n msyw srw+s-! +lAnd so make of him a model for the children of the nobles.+s-! +i40+s-aq&q-D54-sDm-m-i-m-f-mt:t*t-Dba-Dba-Y1v_-ib*1:nb-! +taq sDm im.f mtyt-ib nb+s-! +lMay attentiveness and all honesty enter into him.+s-! +i41+s-|5.6-D&d-W-n:f-D35:N35-ms-s-i-i-B4-s-sA-A-r:W-rwD-A2-! +tddw.f nin msy sArw+s-! +lIf you speak to him, the young one will not come up short.+s-! This might be kinda fun for someone more skilled to criticize. As the slow kid, I typed up the whole thing, hoping that it might be of some use. Bob ============================================================================== From: "Michel Mudde" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL Highlights from the Leiden Museum of Antiquities Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:57:34 +0200 Hi All, For those of us collecting the best of best regarding images of old Egyptian artefacts I recommend: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koopmanrob/sets/72157620858973835 Only someone with an eye for beauty is able to make pictures like these. Page 2 from Rob's series of items captured in the Leiden Museum of Antiquities contains beautiful pictures of stelae. Enjoy yourselves, Michel Mudde ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:32:11 -0600 From: Robert Myers To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL PtahHotep Hi; One thing we might consider trying is to look at the maxims in some order other than linear: to take the more interesting or difficult ones, earlier. Here is my PDF of the text/transliteration/translation: http://www.scribd.com/doc/21403019/PtahHotep Since it's the work of a non-expert, there should be plenty in there to call into question. Sincerely, Bob ============================================================================== From: Rhio Barnhart To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL Source of quote Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:49:35 -0700 Would some kind soul point me towards the original source for the "Harper's Song" that begins: "Spend the day merrily. Put unguent and fine oil together to thy nostrils. Set singing and music before thy face. Cast all evil behind thee, and bethink thee only of joy. Till comes that day of mooring in the land that loveth silence." It was a tomb inscription, but I don't know what period. Many thanks, RHB ******************************* Rhio H. Barnhart Head of the Music Department Library University of California, Davis, CA 95616 rhbarnhart@ucdavis.edu http://music.ucdavis.edu/RHBHome/ ******************************* ==============================================================================