Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:58:25 -0400 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Gerald Kadish Subject: Re: AEL Fw: AEL AW: AEL Weni L10 - ? Sorry to be only partially helpful, but . . . . My aging brain seems to recall an article by Hans Goedicke in which he cast doubt that this is actually a queen's name, but i cannot come up with a reference. AEB time. -- Gerry Kadish Gerald E. Kadish Professor of History and Near Eastern Studies Department of History Binghamton University Binghamton, NY 13902-6000 (607) 777-2488 e-mail address: kadishg@binghamton.edu ============================================================================== From: Nubkhas Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:55:13 EDT To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Fw: AEL AW: AEL Weni L10 - ? In a message dated 98-04-14 03:32:19 EDT, you write: << Sorry to be only partially helpful, but . . . . My aging brain seems to recall an article by Hans Goedicke in which he cast doubt that this is actually a queen's name, but i cannot come up with a reference. AEB time. >> Do you think there is something odd about the way what we have been seeing as "swtn Hm.t wr.(t)" is written? If the /t/ after the M23 belongs with it, as is often seen, then all we have left is "Hm wr"-- no feminine endings (although "Hm.t" is seen written with just N41 alone). But the omission of the feminine ending for "wr" does seem odd. Maybe it refers to a man. Isn't "Hm" a eunuch or something? It certainly would be interesting to see what Goedicke has to say. Marianne Luban ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:18:04 +1000 To: Ancient Egyptian Language From: Mike Dyall-Smith Subject: AEL Weni commentary Dear Weni-philes, I have just tried to update the commentary, but my filed mail may not be complete. Perhaps I have missed some of the grammatical analysis you have discussed so far. If so, please point these out to me. Sorry, but I am still another 2 weeks away from being able to make any significant contributions. Regards, Mike D-S ******************************** Mike Dyall-Smith, Melbourne, Australia m.dyall-smith@microbiology.unimelb.edu.au ******************************** ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:45:56 +0100 From: grym@trybunal.gov.pl (Rymaszewska Grazyna) To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: AEL Weni L11/12 Many thanks for Weni's L10 help to everybody. Now, will you kindly look at my L11/12 - please. My - awkward and temporary - proposal is: L11 - cont.: rdi(=i) Hm=f hA.y r sDm wa=k(wi) n wn.t zAb TAty nb sr nb im wp(=i) r wa=k(wi) n ikr(=i) n wAb Hr ib n Hm (=f ?) n mH(=i) Hm=f ib=f im ink iri m sS wa=k(wi) Hna zAb r nxn wa = His majesty caused that I went down to overhear (the queen ?) only myself, and there was not any judge or any official. I was recommended (to do it) alone because of my skilfulness, and because of (I am as) a root in (his) majesty heart, and I filled his majesty will in that (matter). I did it alone in the form of document, only me and warden of Nekhen. L12: sT iAt(=i) m imi-r xnt.i-S pr-aA = At that time I have a position as overseer of palace personnel. Well, what do you think about it? Yours, Grazyna ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:53:36 -0500 From: badger@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Badger) To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: AEL Meaning of "DAanxs nb" I have a friend who collects reproductions of Egyptian jewelery, and she recently accquired an amulet with a fire drill, anhk, and "folded" s all atop the "nb" basket. I guess the transliteration would be "DAanxs nb". A search through the glossary of Hoch's book and the online resources yielded nothing. I figure that the "nb" means it means "lord of ___" but does anyone have an idea what the rest could mean? Jonathan Badger (badger@aquarius.scs.uiuc.edu) ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:37:35 -0700 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Meaning of "DAanxs nb" Jonathan Badger wrote: > I have a friend who collects reproductions of Egyptian jewelery, and > she recently accquired an amulet with a fire drill, anhk, and "folded" > s all atop the "nb" basket. I guess the transliteration would be > "DAanxs nb". A search through the glossary of Hoch's book and the > online resources yielded nothing. I figure that the "nb" means it > means "lord of ___" but does anyone have an idea what the rest could > mean? > The only thing I can tell you off the top of my head, without reference material available is that the "nb" is in this case "all". The "s" is frequently an abbreviation for "snb.w" (may you be healthy) in these contexts; and the "anx" similarly stands for "anx.w" (may you live). What is the exact sign you refer to as "fire drill"? The pther part would be "May you have all life and health." ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:58:01 -0700 From: Ron Fellows To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Meaning of "DAanxs nb" Jonathan: The fire drill is prosperity; the ankh, life; the folded cloth (s), is health. Usually read, Ankh Udjet Seneb, (or some variety thereof), or Life, Prosperity, and Health. Ron Fellows Jonathan Badger wrote: > > I have a friend who collects reproductions of Egyptian jewelery, and > she recently accquired an amulet with a fire drill, anhk, and "folded" > s all atop the "nb" basket. I guess the transliteration would be > "DAanxs nb". A search through the glossary of Hoch's book and the > online resources yielded nothing. I figure that the "nb" means it > means "lord of ___" but does anyone have an idea what the rest could > mean? > > Jonathan Badger > (badger@aquarius.scs.uiuc.edu) ============================================================================== From: "Mark Vygus" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Meaning of "DAanxs nb" Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:23:59 +0100 >I have a friend who collects reproductions of Egyptian jewelery, and >she recently accquired an amulet with a fire drill, anhk, and "folded" >s all atop the "nb" basket. I guess the transliteration would be >"DAanxs nb". A search through the glossary of Hoch's book and the >online resources yielded nothing. I figure that the "nb" means it >means "lord of ___" but does anyone have an idea what the rest could >mean? > >Jonathan Badger >(badger@aquarius.scs.uiuc.edu) > it says anx wDa snb life prosperity health or may he live, be prosperous and be healthy mark nsw-bit@msn.com ============================================================================== From: Neil Parker Subject: Re: AEL Meaning of "DAanxs nb" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Jonathan Badger wrote, >I have a friend who collects reproductions of Egyptian jewelery, and >she recently accquired an amulet with a fire drill, anhk, and "folded" >s all atop the "nb" basket. I guess the transliteration would be >"DAanxs nb". A search through the glossary of Hoch's book and the >online resources yielded nothing. I figure that the "nb" means it >means "lord of ___" but does anyone have an idea what the rest could >mean? Are you sure the order of the first three signs wasn't "anx DA s"? If that's what it was, then you almost certainly have an abbreviation of "anx wDA snb", a common formula meaning "life, health, strength" (the extra "nb" at the end makes it "all life, health, and strength"). - Neil Parker nparker@llx.com ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:58:23 +0000 Subject: AEL New teach yourself hieroglyphs book! Dear all, It looks like the long awaited book by Mark Collier has finally come out. I haven't seen a copy yet, and have no more information about it other than the basic bibliographic details below: Title: How to Read Hieroglyphs : A Step by Step Guide to Teach Yourself Author: Mark Collier Price: #9.99 Sterling Binding: Paperboards Published: March 1998 Publisher: Brit. Museum P ISBN: 0714119105 Presumably this is the same book that was mentioned on the ane list last September... > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:40:56 +0100 (BST) > To: John Huddlestun > Subject: Egyptian grammars > > A colleague has sent me copies of this correspondence on ane. Those > interested might like to know that Mark Collier has just sent to press > an introductory grammar of Egyptian that is intended to enable > amateurs in particular to read simple monumental texts but does not > pretend to cover the language completely. It will be in a relatively > (but maybe not absolutely) small format. It is to be published by > British Museum Press in 1998 and no doubt also by a US publisher. This > will be a work by a leading contemporary linguist of Egyptian that > will give a short introduction. We shall probably have to wait rather > longer for a full Egyptian grammar for the general user to set > alongside Gardiner. > > John Baines > Oriental Institute, Oxford Regards, -- Mark Wilson weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/index.html ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:38:42 -0700 From: Patrick De Smet - Rodrigues To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL New teach yourself hieroglyphs book! Mark Wilson wrote: > > Dear all, > > It looks like the long awaited book by Mark Collier has finally come > out. I haven't seen a copy yet, and have no more information about > it other than the basic bibliographic details below: > > Title: How to Read Hieroglyphs : A Step by Step Guide to Teach Yourself > Author: Mark Collier > Price: #9.99 Sterling > Binding: Paperboards > Published: March 1998 > Publisher: Brit. Museum P > ISBN: 0714119105 > > Presumably this is the same book that was mentioned on the ane list > last September... What a coincidence! I have just returned from a trip to London and the British Museum. I can tell you all that Mark Collier's book is already on sale in the museumshops overthere. BTW, I was really disgusted to see that the busloads of tourists in the Egyptian department (some rooms were closed or partly inaccessible) had absolutely no respect for the stone sarcophagi and statues on display: hands touching, rubbing and probing everywhere. =:-( The very few guards didn't react to this either. Maybe we should bring up the old "curse of the pharaoh" story again to teach people to keep some distance? ;-) "No, sir, it isn't made of plastic." "Yes, ma'am, they had polishing tools at that time..." "Please keep your fingers off that relief. What? You thought it was one of those computer touch screens?" :-) Yours, Patrick De Smet - Rodrigues udjat@skynet.be Udjat, "Cursing" Eye in the Sky ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:58:35 +0200 From: Serge Rosmorduc To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL Weni L11/12 Rymaszewska Grazyna 'ecrit : > Many thanks for Weni's L10 help to everybody. > > Now, will you kindly look at my L11/12 - please. > My - awkward and temporary - proposal is: > > L11 - cont.: > > rdi(=i) Hm=f hA.y r sDm wa=k(wi) rd Hm=f (indicative sDm=f with past value) hAy=i r sDm wa=kwi > n wn.t zAb TAty nb sr nb im > wp(=i) r wa=k(wi) n ikr(=i) n wAb Hr ib n Hm (=f ?) more likely wpw-r=i wa=kwi : "except me alone" > n mH(=i) Hm=f ib=f im n mH Hm=f ib=f im=i > ink iri m sS wa=k(wi) Hna zAb r nxn wa > > = His majesty caused that I went down to overhear (the queen ?) > only myself, and there was not any judge or any official. > I was recommended (to do it) alone because of my skilfulness, > and because of (I am as) a root in (his) majesty heart, > and I filled his majesty will in that (matter). > I did it alone in the form of document, only me > and warden of Nekhen. Note that the last sentence is most probably a cleft sentence, which insist on the HE did it. The standard "Egyptologycal" translation would be It was me alone who put it in writting, with the warden of Nekhen, > > L12: sT iAt(=i) m imi-r xnt.i-S pr-aA > > = At that time I have a position as overseer of palace personnel. I would link it more to the previous sentence : ... while my charge was that of overseer of the palace's personnel. The idea is that he got important missions while holding a relatively low title. > > Well, what do you think about it? > > Yours, > Grazyna Quite good :-) ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:10:17 +1100 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Mike Dyall-Smith Subject: Re: AEL New teach yourself hieroglyphs book! Mark wrote: >It looks like the long awaited book by Mark Collier has finally come >out. I was hoping for something a lot more serious. My original gossip was a collaboration between Mark Collier and another well known egyptologist, to produce something for university level teaching. It is a pity Mark is not accessible by e-mail (then again, maybe that means he can get some work done!!). It would be nice if someone could gently ask whether there is something more to come.... Also, could someone in London have a look at the book and give a review of it, cross-posting to EEF. regards, Mike D-S ----------------------------------------------------------- Dr Mike Dyall-Smith, Dept. Microbiology and Immunology, University of Melbourne, 3052 Australia Tel: +61 3 9 344 5693 Fax: +61 3 9347 1540 e-mail: m.dyall-smith@microbiology.unimelb.edu.au ----------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================================== From: BisnoCC Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 01:43:39 EDT To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL New teach yourself hieroglyphs book! In a message dated 98-04-15 18:22:31 EDT, you write: << BTW, I was really disgusted to see that the busloads of tourists in the Egyptian department (some rooms were closed or partly inaccessible) had absolutely no respect for the stone sarcophagi and statues on display: hands touching, rubbing and probing everywhere. >> This is a problem called "museum patina" and occurs in almost every museum. I wrote to everyone and no suggestion worked, especially on our porous Aztec volcanic stone objects. Everyone has to touch, and the only real protection is to put things under glass or the like. In our case it was not only regular visitors, but twenty-five or more years of thousands of school children filing past and reaching out. We did (and still do) have a dinosaur femur called the "touch bone", which people could touch, and the old Getty Museum in Malibu had a "touch statue". The Getty's worked, ours didn't. Jay Bisno Culver City ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:44:39 +0100 From: grym@trybunal.gov.pl (Rymaszewska Grazyna) To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL New teach yourself hieroglyphs book! Is that book (Mark Collier: How to Read Hieroglyphs : A Step by Step Guide to Teach Yourself) a real BOOK or only a leaflet or a toy - who knows? Grazyna ============================================================================== From: nordpete@webtv.net (Jim & Barb Nordyke/Petersen) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:53:59 -0400 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk (Ancient Egyptian Language List) Subject: Re: AEL New teach yourself hieroglyphs book! Is this book available in the US yet? Have checked with "Books-A-Million" and Amazon however unable to locate, any assistance greatly appreciated. Thank-you. Barbara Petersen nordpete@webtv.net ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 13:48:58 -0500 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Christina Paul Subject: Re: AEL New teach yourself hieroglyphs book! My suggestion is to go to the URL for the British Museum Book and Gift shop. http://www.british-museum.ac.uk/bmco.html The main page has other contact numbers at: http://www.british-museum.ac.uk/ You can probably obtain more information there at the source than anywhere in the US yet. Cheers, Christina Paul At 09:53 AM 4/16/1998 -0400, you wrote: >Is this book available in the US yet? Have checked with >"Books-A-Million" and Amazon however unable to locate, any assistance >greatly appreciated. Thank-you. > >Barbara Petersen >nordpete@webtv.net > > "Evaluate things and opportunities as you encounter them; don't be afraid, listen to the voices and act on them." "Believe in your culture, be confident, and attend to community" - Jhon Goes in Center - Lakota http://www.netins.net/showcase/ankh http://www.netins.net/showcase/artwerks/journeys/ ICQ # 4699385 ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:03:53 +0100 From: Geoff Ponton To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: AEL How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs Collier and Manley's book seems excellent to me. It is easy to read, clear and straightforward. Necessary grammar is there but they use real texts. Standard texts (such as the offering formula) are dealt with in detail. Exercises and keys are provided. Thoroughly recommended for beginners. Mark Collier and Bill Manley: How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs. A Step-by-Step Guide to Teach Yourself (London. British Museum Press, 1998) ISBN 0 7141 1910 5 Price: 9.99 British pounds Geoff P. -- ------------------------------------- -- danny33@danny33.demon.co.uk A true scientific vision: austere, tragic, alienated and supremely beautiful. A world that isn't for anything; a world that is just there. - Jerry Fodor ============================================================================== From: nordpete@webtv.net (Jim & Barb Nordyke/Petersen) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:06:36 -0400 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk (Ancient Egyptian Language List) Subject: AEL Fwd: How to Read Hieroglyphs...etc. Thought I would pass this info to you for your consideration. According to British Museum, to order Collier's book in the US and Canada, it is to be ordered through the University of California Press. Their order phone is (800) 822-6657 and the mailing address for ordering is : CPFS, P.O.Box 7780-4721,Philadelphia,PA 19182-4721. My concern is that the US-ISBN # is different from the UK #. The US -ISBN # 0520215974 with a title of "How to Read Egyptian Hieroglyphs: A step by step guide " by Mark Collier not scheduled to be available until at least June in US. However "thousands of copies" are to be expected if the person I talked to is to be believed. Cost of book $18.95 US + 3.75 for S&H also if in Cal. or NJ please add applicable sales tax. Book may be ordered at any time, and will be placed on back order until release in US. Hope this is of assistance to AEL and EEF listmembers. Thank-you. Barbara Petersen nordpete@webtv.net ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:25:36 -0700 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL New teach yourself hieroglyphs book! Christina Paul wrote: =20 > My suggestion is to go to the URL for the British Museum Book and Gift = shop. The information granted was: How to Read Egyptian Hierogylphs A step by step guide to teach yourself hieroglyphs Mark Collier and Bill Manley NEW TITLE 1998, 234 x 156mm 192pp 200 line ISBN 0 7141 1910 5 Paper =A39.99 USA and Canada contact The University of California Press , for all = other markets contact British Museum Press=20 However University of California Press don't seem to have it listed. --=20 Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ============================================================================== To: aegyptian-l@rostau.demon.co.uk From: "Kurt Osterwald-Lenum" Subject: ael weni l11/12 Date: Sat, 18 Apr 98 13:13:38 PDT Dear fellow students. I am a newcommer to this subject. How do the ael weni L11/12 look. Will someone please send me a copy to translate. Regards Kurt. ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 15:25:24 +0000 Subject: Re: ael weni l11/12 Dear Kurt, Welcome to AEL! You can find the Weni text on-line. Simply go to the AEL web page (URL at the bottom of this message) and then click on the link to the autobiography of Weni. Best wishes, Mark Wilson. On 18 Apr 98 at 13:13, Kurt Osterwald-Lenum wrote: > Dear fellow students. > > I am a newcommer to this subject. How do the ael weni L11/12 look. > Will someone please send me a copy to translate. > > Regards > > Kurt. > > -- Mark Wilson weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/index.html ============================================================================== From: Michael Tilgner To: 'Ancient Egyptian Language List' Subject: AEL AW: AEL Harris Magical Papyrus ? Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 22:53:17 +0200 Papyrus Harris =3D BM 10042 Magical Text; Publ. by Lange, as mentioned. The following book may also be interesting (I don't know it myself): Borghouts, J. F., "Ancient Egyptian Magical Texts", Nisaba Vol. 9, Leiden, 1978, 137p. I hope it may be of some help for you. Michael Tilgner mtilgner@baan.nl