From: "Helen Lowell" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Transliteration and Translation of Chester Beatty IV Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:51:59 -0000 Will, Here are my ideas. Perhaps "smwn r f" should read "smwn rf " meaning "maybe". Without the transcription it is difficult to tell. A translation could be "Maybe, in the cemetery,a name in the mouths of men is beneficial (or some such useful word)" or "smwn" "surely" and "rf" for emphasis "Surely, in the cemetery, a name in the mouths of men is most beneficial " ie. so the dead will live on. Helen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Doherty" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: AEL Transliteration and Translation of Chester Beatty IV > > Has anyone on the AEL list translated, or know of various good solid > translations of the Chester Beatty IV manuscript? > > In particular, I'd like to check on this transliteration and translation > below, particularly on the phrase "For sure there is most use in the > cemetery" which doesn't seem to parse well to me. > > Here's the portion of the manuscript to which I'm referring, > transliteration and translation excerpted from the web page at > http://www.digitalegypt.ucl.ac.uk/literature/authorspchb.html : > > Paragraph 5 > > "irt sS imi sw m ib.k > xpr rn.k m mitt > Ax Sfdw r wD > m qd r inhAt smn.ti > irt nn Hwt.w mrw > n ib n dm rn.sn > smwn r.f Ax m Xrt-nTr > rn m r n rmt" > > "Be a writer - put it in your heart, > and your name is created by the same. > Scrolls are more useful than tombstones, > than building a solid enclosure. > They act as chapels and chambers, > by the desire of the one pronouncing their name. > For sure there is most use in the cemetery > for a name in the mouths of men." > > > Thanks for any alternative interpretations you may offer. > > Best regards, > > Will Doherty > ============================================================================== From: "Michael Tilgner" To: "Forum AEL" Subject: Re: AEL Transliteration and Translation of Chester Beatty IV Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 23:23:40 +0100 Will Doherty wrote: > In particular, I'd like to check on this transliteration and > translation below, particularly on the phrase "For sure there is most > use in the cemetery" which doesn't seem to parse well to me. I have a slightly different version: Ax Sfdw - r wD m-qd xt.t - r jnhA.t smn=tj "A scroll is more useful than - a stela with an inscription (and) - a *wall of a chapel firmly established." Sfdw "scroll" (Hannig, Ägyptisch-Deutsch, p. 818) - note: singular! wD "stela" (p. 231) m-qd [= mj-qd] "together with" (Hannig, p. 868) - this exact meaning is not given in this dictionary, but may be derived from similar expressions mj-qd "entire"; mj-qd=sn "all together"; m-qd wa "all together" xt.t "inscription" (p. 625), derived from xtj "to carve, to engrave" - the website omitted this word D51:D40 jnhA.t "*wall of a chapel" (Hannig, p. 78; * = not sure) jr nn Hw.wt mr.w "This [= the scroll] makes tombs and pyramids ..." Hwt "chapel; tomb" - Hwt n.t nHH "house of eternity (tomb)" (Hannig, p. 516) - I chose tomb because of the parallel to mr "pyramid" n [= m] jb n dm rn=sn "in the heart of the one who praises / mentions their name" n [= m] "in" - Late Egyptian (p. 311) dm " praise (name); mention (name)" (p. 978) smwn rf Ax m Xr.t-nTr "Surely useful in the necropolis ..." smwn (rf) "probably" (Hannig, p. 706) - Gardiner, Egyptian Grammar, § 241 has "probably; surely"; the same in TLA rn m rA n rmT "... is a name in the mouth of the people" Alan H. Gardiner, Hieratic Papyri in the British Museum, Third Series, Chester Beatty Gift, vol. I: Text, London, 1935, p. 39 translated this passage as follows: "More profitable is a book than a graven tombstone, than a chapel-wall (?) firmly established. This serves as chapels and pyramids to the end that a man's name may be pronounced. Assuredly profitable in the necropolis is a name on the lips of mankind!" Best wishes, Michael Tilgner ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:23:45 +0100 From: Serge Rosmorduc To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL JSesh version 2.8.1 Dear all, Version 2.8.1 of JSesh, my free hieroglyphic text editor, is available. It can be found as usual on : http://jsesh.qenherkhopeshef.org/ What's new ? * IMPORTANT BUG FIX: the scale used in "edited groups" was wrong since august 2008 (I typed 10000 instead of 1000 when cleaning up the drawingSpecification system). Old groups did not print well as a result of this. Of course, with this bug fix, you will need to re-arrange groups in text written with the faulty systems. * Usability improvement: cut and paste of right-to-left text or text in column did give strange results with the default settings. I have fixed this, and introduced a new option in the preferences: "respect layout", which is "on" by default. When it's "off", JSesh uses left-to-right text. A new "copy" mode has been introduced: wysiwyg. Note that right-to-left cut and paste will probably be improved at some time, because the left-to-right default is not very "international" (it doesn't mix well with arabic or hebrew texts, for instance). * And, once more, a whole new family of font have been updated. JSesh has now a complete "N" family from S. Thomas. I have also worked on the glyphs description, and the "man and its occupation" family is on its way. More to come While I'm saying this, I will had that JSesh includes a tool to describe glyphs, which can be found in the "bin" folder. Anyone with a reasonable knowledge of hieroglyphs can help... The glyph description data can only be created "by hand", and it takes time. It's also a task that can be easily shared by many people. So, consider this as a call to volunteers :) Best regards, S. Rosmorduc ============================================================================== From: Cali Coquet To: Subject: AEL Uses of jw Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 14:13:38 +0000 I'm attempting to compile a list of the various uses of jw in Early, Middle and Late Egyptian. e.g. as indicator of independent clause with sdm.n.f, stative etc. in Middle Egyptian as indicator of dependent clause with sdm.n.f in Late Egyptian supporting pronominal or nominal subject in adverbial phrases in Middle Egyptian supporting pronominal subject in adverbial phrases in Late Egyptian as overt existential predicate in ME supporting pronominal subject in negative adverbial phrases with nn at end of classical period Does anyone know of any unusual/undocumented occurrences of jw? I'd really appreciate your input! Thanks, Cali Coquet ==============================================================================