Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:17:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Weben Banu Subject: Re: AEL Progressing on a title of Sekhmet- now with pictures! To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Thank you for your comments, Aayko! The Wörterbuch agrees with you, and that does seem to be the traditional interpretation. The Egyptologist lady with whom I spoke has cited Faulkner and the Hannig dictionary in support of her theory- but after pressing for more details it does seem to be more of her own pet theory than a more-or-less known correction to an old interpretation, as it had seemed when she first explained it to me. It's a shame, it does make a lot of sense- and it is possible that there is still some word linkage/punning going on here. But I'm going to have to revert the fundamental level of translation back to HsA and "fierce, wild/grim." The masculine phrasing is odd, but then again I have seen images of Sekhmet with an erect phallus- and one of our other esteemed list members has mentioned a tendency to blur gender lines in certain cases. I have also noticed a tendency to drop feminine genders in several word classes as the language progressed. So although I agree that it is odd, I don't think it is impossible that the "zfj" in question might in fact be female. I may have to pick up a copy of this book after all, or at least see if we have it in the library, because from what little was transmitted on the small copy my friend gave me there do seem to be other references to Sekhmet surrounding this title. I need to get more of a context, and I will do that before posting more here. I'm interested in the possibility of this as a title of the Sun- when does he "hide himself"? Even when the sun goes down to the underworld, he travels in state and seems very much to be there in order to "be seen" by the souls of the dead who are awakened by his light. Do you think this may refer to a solar eclipse? How did the serpent Apophis rejuvenate the sun? That is a new take on the process, from what I've read, and I find this very interesting. Ra was impeded by the snake every night, and once he was defeated the sun barque's way was cleared to progress on toward the renewal of dawn- but I have never heard this battle interpreted as *causing* that renewal in and of itself. I'll have to think on this- that way of reading the epithet had never occurred to me! Of course, this all comes back to Hs-Hr... or HsA Hr... and who he is. I know so deplorably little about him! He is a netherworld deity; Hwt-Hrw, whom the lady with whom I spoke believes is our "Favored of Face" designated by this title, also has a marked presence in the ancient Egyptian netherworld. Sekhmet also has henchmen from whom one would want to be protected, and one might address her by her less ferocious aspect as a kind of apotropaic invocation- she is undoubtedly linked to Hwt-Hrw, so I could see a dangerous encounter with her being warded off by a gentling of her aspect with a more innocuous title. On the other hand, the deity could be a netherworld "demon," or even someone completely different, heh. I've only seen the deity mentioned in two places, and have so little from which to judge. I am a little concerned over an interpretation of Apophis as Hs-Hr, mainly because the name given definitely has a "divinity" determinative, and I wonder if Apophis was ever dignified with this distinction? It seems to me that his name was always determined by a snake- and usually a snake with a knife in his head or his body chopped into harmless pieces. I have a summary of The Book of Caverns in one of my Hornung books here, I'll review it and see what light it sheds. Thank you for talking this out with me- I find the subject fascinating, and it really helps to have multiple viewpoints on these things! Kind regards, Katherine ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:46:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Weben Banu Subject: AEL Re: mAj-HsA To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Before I forget, I looked up the spelling of mAj-HsA again and you are absolutely correct- the hieroglyphs are explicitly spelled out as HsA, and it should be read as "Fierce Lion!" My comments earlier are directed only at the Hs in Hs(A?) Hr. ~Katherine ==============================================================================