From: "Nicholas,Patrizia Myall" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL Gardiner's exercise Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:40:04 +0100 Dear Andr=E8 and all, I did the Gardiner's exercise pg.37 and 38. I did't type it all because I am too lazy. I noted that in exercise n.8 I omited the "n" because I thought that it was included in "sDm" meaning and in exercise n.9 I added "m" after "im". I am still a little bit confused about "iw" but I think it is better to carry on with the exercises and slowly we can clear up the subject. Could I ask a favour, is it possible to mark the feminine gender in ever= y transliteration? =20 ciao a tutti Patrizia Di Paolo =20 ============================================================================== From: Andren4585 Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 18:59:50 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Gardiner Exercise In a message dated 98-03-15 14:14:49 EST, you write: << The "normal" sentence is the one with "iw", not the reverse. If a one says : iw s m at tn It's a plain constatation : there is a man in this room. mk s m at tn It's something you can see : lo, there's a man in this room. But, on its own : s m at tn means Gosh ! there's a man in this room ! To sum up : in themes, put 'iw' in front of independant sentences, when possible. >> I couldn't disagree with this more. If you look at some texts, there is scarcely a "iw" in sight unless it is something that, if it were in an English text, might be in parenthesis. "iw" is a form of the verb "to be". It has no business, for example, in a phrase like "h3 sS m kt dpt" because this has nothing to do with the verb "to be". Gardiner was absolutely right when he gives "wbn r< m pt" as "the sun rises in the sky". That is Egyptian! It is no different than other languages--German, for example , which says "scheint die Sonne im Himmel" (shines the sun in sky). What I would disagree with on Gardiner's page 36 is his giving "r< m pt" as "the sun is in the sky". It really ought to be, in that case, "iw r< m pt" because we are here dealing with the verb "to be". To use just "r< m pt" should be circumstantial--like "when the sun is (was, will be) in the sky" or "the sun being in the sky" or even "let the sun be in the sky". I would say, that in the present tense, use "iw" as sparingly as possible because, really, it implies a possible future event. In many texts, like the Book of the Dead, I see that, when "iw" is used introducing a clause that has nothing to do with the verb "to be", it is translated in the present when probably it means the future. It is rather like the old Irish way of predicting futurity when they used to say "It's you must go and I must bide... It's I'll be here in sunlight or in shadow." An example is "iw-f r sDm " (it's he will hear) Or, quite often, "iw" is used in phrases that are repeated quite frequently (again many examples in the Book of the Dead) as you have said. The only time that I would say "iw" can otherwise properly begin a simple statement in the present tense that has nothing to do with the verb "to be" is this frequent mode of expression: "iw-f Hr wnm Hn< swri" or "He is upon eating and drinking"--which somehow implies the verb "to be". OR, if the idea in the verb must for some reason be emphasized--and why it is being emphasized in some texts is not always clear to us. A clear example is "iw sDm-k n Hn-f" "it's you are listening to the king". Of course, in this case the "listening" is very important! If anybody has somehow changed all this since Gardiner's day--they are wrong! Well, why not? The ancient Egyptians, themselves, were sometimes confused about this "iw" business. As for them using "iw" where we would use parentheses, let me cite you an example from "The Battle of Kadesh". The text says "..'.Now the abominable prince of Kheta is encamped in the land of Aleppo, to the north of the country of Tunep, and he is afraid to advance because of Pharaoh, lph.' In this wise did the Shasu speak but they spoke to His Majesty lying words " Up to this point there is not a "iw" in the narrative--but suddenly"iw p3 xr n xt3 di iwt- sn r ptri p3 nti Hn-f im n Hr n tm dit Hr sw p3 m To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Transliterations Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:28:55 +0100 Dear Maliya, I believe that everybody in the list is interested to know more details about the origin of your tribe, how is it called, where do you live, and expecially some phrases/words of your language that are similar to the Ancient egyptian/coptic. Simone De Lorenzis -----Original Message----- From: Maliya A Bucknor-Smartt To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Date: luned=EC 9 marzo 1998 22.25 Subject: Re: AEL Transliterations > > >On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, Mr G. Haines wrote: > >> It is not to be thought that Swahili (or any other African language) i= s a >> form of Ancient Egyptian - swahili contains words from many languages such >> as "Komputa", "Mashine ya fax" and "Teksi". >> > >This is very untrue. As an Indigenous Egyptian, I know that a few >languages in other parts of Africa partly descended from the ancient >Egyptian language. My ancestors migrated from Egypt at a very brutal poi= nt >in the Arab conquest, and settled in other parts of Africa, from west to >east. We took our ancient Egyptian language with us, and of course many >words changed over the centuries, just like English has changed >over centuries. But the language we speak now is a mixture of the ancien= t >Egyptian language and a few Indigenous West African languages. >(...) >Maliya Oduduwa-Bucknorsmartt > > ============================================================================== From: Andren4585 Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 19:07:11 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Gardiner Exercise In a message dated 98-03-15 08:08:08 EST, you write: << Here is my attempt on exercise II: >> Dear Ivo, I am happy to see people are working on these exercises. You have done a good job and show that you understand how Egyptian works. Just a couple of comments on what you have done. When you transliterate a word with only two letters like "pt" and "st", it is not necessary to put a dot or dash between them. In fact, in the case of a noun, it is never necessary at all even to isolate the feminine ending "t", although some do. When we start putting dots and dashes, it involves the verb endings or expressing ownership as in "mwt-f" (his mother). I see also a tendancy to overuse "iw". Though I cannot tell you you are wrong to use it in every sentence, I don't want you to get the idea that it must always be present. In fact, in a phrase like << a) 1. The sun shines on the horizon. iw wbn ra m p.t >> I wouldn't use it at all. This is because this is a static concept. Nothing is happening except the sun is just shining. This has nothing to do with "iw", which is a form of the verb "to be". There is nothing to emphasize here. I fear that this "iw" business threatens to become a source of confusion to us all, and I wouldn't want that to happen. However, now we are about to have a discussion about "iw" and until we exchange these ideas and attempt to make some sense of all this and reach some sort of general concensus on the list, perhaps I had better not say any more about "iw". Andre Renouf ============================================================================== From: Andren4585 Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:09:48 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Gardiner's exercise In a message dated 98-03-15 19:01:12 EST, you write: << I am still a little bit confused about "iw" but I think it is better to carry on with the exercises and slowly we can clear up the subject.>> Yes, we'll forge ahead. >> Could I ask a favour, is it possible to mark the feminine gender in every transliteration? >> I'm not sure what you are requesting. Could you be a little more specific? Anyway, Lesson III deals, at first with the biliteral signs--that is the glyphs that represent a combination of two consonants. I wish everyone could see those that Gardiner shoes because they are very common. For example, the "arms reaching heavenward" is "k3" and the "flying duck" is "p3". Sometimes these signs are followed by "phonetic complements, expressing part of their sound value. We could explore this more if we had a text to work on. Next in this lesson are "the suffix pronouns", which are so called because they must be attached to some preceding word. They are: i I, me, my ex: pr-i my house , mry-i I love k Thou, thee, thy (masc) ex: Hmt-k your wife , mry- k you love T Thou , thee, thy (fem) ex: s3t-T your daughter, sDm-T you hear f He, him, his, it, its ex: dpt-f his boat , rx-f it knows s She, her, it, its ex: mwt-s her mother, sDm-s it hears n We, us , our ex: sS-n our scribe, rx-n we know Tn You (pl), your Ex. dmi-Tn your town , mry-Tn you love sn They, them, their Ex: H3t-sn their hearts h3-sn they descend That's it for now. Andre Renouf ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 22:44:56 -0500 From: Judson Chambers To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL re: Wheeler's response, Imn-t Tokapu Your response was apt... I find this "New Age" label quite starkly out of place! We seem to have many folk here engaged in learning the hieroglyphs parallel with many of us who have grown up learning English. Many of us do not understand the persons who were the keepers of English language, there education and stature in the world in those times. Many of us understand even less the Egyptians, the keepers and developers of the 'hieroglyphs' and their linguistic offspring. God help us. Keep up the good work! Judson Chambers ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:59:50 -0100 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Francesca Subject: AEL French grammar book I would like to know if some people have the French Egyptian book "Cours d'Egyptien Hieroglyphique", could they help me out ? The answers are not included so I would like to correspond with someone who might have the answers either on or off-list. I do have Gardiner's Grammar, but IMO this book is better. Thank you. Francesca Jourdan ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:27:40 -0500 () From: Robyn Adams Gillam To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Djoser / Nefertari On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, DPeregrine wrote: Try looking in GAuthier's Livre du Rois and Quibell's and Lauer's publication of the Step Pyramid (especially the stone vase inscriptions in the latter. This should be helpful. Best wishes, Robyn Gillam Classical Studies York University Toronto, Canada > Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:49:15 EST > From: DPeregrine > Reply-To: Ancient Egyptian Language List > To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk > Subject: Re: AEL Djoser / Nefertari > > Re: Wives of Djoser > I always hate myself later when I don't cite sources in notes I make to > myself! > However, I find that I scribbled in the margin of my Clayton "Chronicle of the > Pharaohs" that among Djoser's wives were a Satet, and also a Heterphenebty who > I further note was his sister. Comments anyone? Would anyone be kind enough to > remind me where the dickens I got this? > Diane Peregrine > DPeregrine@aol.com > ============================================================================== From: Tokapu Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:25:12 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL re: Wheeler's response, Imn-t Dear Mr. Chambers, Thank you for your encouraging words. You bring up a most cogent realization about civilization's noble ancestors. There is one thing about the purveyors both of modern English and the ancient hieroglyph that you can depend on: they were as human as you, definitively, biologically and psychologically. Their environment and technology was different, but inside, they were just like you and me. I have noticed a peculiar tendency to treat the ancients and their material as TRULY alien inspired, that is, beyond "mere human" understanding. The truth is quite different, but it is still the truth. Ramona Louise Wheeler http://members.aol.com/tokapu/walkle01.htm ============================================================================== From: Tokapu Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:29:55 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Administrative Friends, If there are members of this group who would like to discuss the admittedly off-list but totally fascinating topic of comparative linguistics in relation to ancient Egypt, then you should enquire at USHorus@aol.com, Moustafa Gadalla or Faith Cross, about joining the Egypt List, where such discussion is invited, and quite correct. We discuss the broader aspects of the times and philosophy, and it is possible to explore the topic of word meanings and sound without muddying the waters of this very special List. The two complement each other nicely, and the separation keeps the topics tidier. Ramona Louise Wheeler http://members.aol.com/tokapu/walkle01.htm ============================================================================== From: Aayko Eyma To: 'Ancient Egyptian Language List' Subject: AEL AW: AEL Djoser / Nefertari (long) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:40:52 +-100 Katherine Griffis-Greenberg wrote: >There are several versions of Nefertari's name, as Budge's _Book of Kings_ indicates. ***I found two variants: 1) In Vandenberg "Ramses der Grosse" a cartouche drawn by the author; he btw says (without giving reasons) that Nefertari means "the most beautifull of all". Copying the 'block' -writing as closely as possible, so Fransesco could 're-glyph': X1 G14 X1 F35 L17 D21 Z4A N35 N36 X1 The glyphs thus are: t-mw.t-nfr-i-t-r-y-n-mr-t The goddess of course being transfered to the front for religious reasons, and the little t's transfered to empty spaces for esthetic reasons (the first t belongs to Mut; standard writing to put it under the belly of the vulture). Likely this should be read: nfr.t iry mr[.y].t n[.t] mw.t with the n being transfered as well. The t cannot belong to iry, as the // does not tolerate an extra ending after itself (unlike the double-reed) 2) There's a picture of the temple for Nefertari in Abu Simbel, in Lesko - The Royal Women of Egypt (p.11). It's taken from below, so the cartouche is slightly shaded, but I read without much doubt: F35 G17 D21 L17 Z4 U7 N35 So no Mut-vulture to be seen, just an owl... Can anyone confirm? It likely is an abbreviation? (Faulkner gives as only relevant variant for Mut: owl-arm holding loaf-loaf-woman, i.e. m-m(i)-t ) The glyphs thus are: nfr-m-i-r-y-mr-n likely to be read: nfr[.t] iry mr[.y.t] n[.t] m[w.t] Hmm, just remember someone saying on ANE that Ramses' wife was called Noferari. Perhaps he had seen the picture above, thus taking this form instead of Nofertari. Was he technically right or wrong? >Her standard name (Nefertiri Mer(en) Mut, "Nefertiri, much >loved [beloved] by Mut") seems to have been rendered (with goddess >reference (Mut) first): >Mwt mr n nfr .t iry >Of course, _nfr.t iry_ means "the good/beautiful (fem) companion". >See Gardiner's, p. 537 for the use of /y/ for the "\\" sign (Z4) which >comprises the last glyph in her name. /i/ is also used in an optional >spelling as in 'nfr.t iri' that I have seen elsewhere, but Gardiner disagrees. *** We had as variants: nfr[.t] iry mr[.y.t] n[.t] m[w.t] nfr.t iry mr[.y].t n[.t] mw.t a) mr[.y].t n[.t] mw.t would be "beloved one of Mut" I feel. b) nfr.t iry Faulkner gives for 'companion': reed-mouth-reed, fem. reed-mouth-bread-woman. Also "beautifull companion" would rather be 'iri.t nfr.t' (noun-adj). The iry above is always written like the nisbe of 'r', ir.y "thereof, thereto"; ir.y can take the place of the third person suffix pronouns when the latter is used possessively. Hmm, does that help us? :-/ "the beautifull one thereof"? i.e. "the beautifull one of them"?, which is somewhat in the direction of Vandenberg's "the most beautifull of all". You can nearly picture the sad spectacle, all those harem-candidates being presented before Ramses, and he crying out "Her! She is the best of the bunch!", and so the poor girl got her new name.. The Hittite rendered the name as 'Naptera', so strangely enough the female ending remained in this case, perhaps because the r was already dropped. So if we 'wrongly' say "Nefer-tari" (vs. Neferet-ari) we seem to be in Old Anatolian company (unless they said 'Napt-era'). I could not find anything about Djoser's wife. Only that his (probable) mother was the wife of Khasekhemui, called Nimaathap (Gardiner's Hepenma'e). Any suggestions and corrections appreciated. kind regards, Aayko Eyma ============================================================================== From: "Nicholas,Patrizia Myall" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL R: AEL Gardiner's exercise Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:21:27 +0100 ---------- > Da: Andren4585 > A: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk > Oggetto: Re: AEL Gardiner's exercise > Data: luned=EC 16 marzo 1998 6.09 =20 I . >=20 > >> Could I ask a favour, is it possible to mark the feminine gender in every > transliteration? > >> >=20 > I'm not sure what you are requesting. Could you be a little more specific? =20 Andre Renouf =20 for example when you write "dpt" maybe it could help us if you mark the feminine. e.g "dp.t".=20 Grazie Patrizia Di Paolo ============================================================================== From: Jcmoinet Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:27:14 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: AEL Re : AEL French grammar book Dear Francesca I have the "Cours d'Egyptien Hieroglyphique" and use it in the lessons I have in Marseille. As it is my first year, I am not very advanced in the book (Lesson 7). But if possible, I will try to send you the correction of the exercises. I really think this book is very good. I also use 2 books from Bernadette Menu, editions GEUTHNER : - Petite grammaire de l'egyptien hieroglyphique a l'usage des debutants - Petit lexique de l'egyptien hieroglyphique a l'usage des debutants The first one is a grammar, quite simple. The second one is a kind of dictionnary. If you can read french easily, these books are also interesting. Friendly Jean Christophe MOINET Marseille ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:11:33 +0100 From: franck To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL Cours d'Egyptien Hieroglyphique Francesca wrote: > I would like to know if some people have the French Egyptian book "Cours > d'Egyptien Hieroglyphique", could they help me out ? The answers are not > included so I would like to correspond with someone who might have the > answers either on or off-list. I do have Gardiner's Grammar, but IMO this > book is better. > Thank you. > Francesca Jourdan Hi there, I've been using this book for 6 months and I'm trying to finish lesson 6. I've been a member of this list for almost 1 year and I completed exercices 1 and 2 with a small number of errors .Exercises from Gardiner are more difficult, but I found the answers. Regarding "Cours d'Egyptien Hieroglyphique", we can compare our answers and communicate out of the list in french . This book is nice for step by step knowledge. I'm an Internet engineer, I love Ancient Egypt, I try to translate hieroglyphics as a hobby and I'm totally autodidact. My study books are: "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary : With an Index of English Words, King List, an Geographical List With Indexes, List of Hieroglyphic Characters,"(2 books) Ernest Alfred Thompson Wallis, Sir, Budge, E. A. Wallis Budge; Paperback; "Egyptian Language : Easy Lessons in Egyptian Hieroglyphics" E. A. Wallis Budge; Paperback and I'm still awaiting my Gardiner from http://www.amazon.com This list is a mine of information, thanks to all for everything, Franck . -- Franck Langeard Tech. Manager http://www.ais.gp/contact.htm ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:52:06 -0100 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Francesca Subject: Re: AEL Re : AEL French grammar book At 02:27 PM 3/17/98 -0500, Franck wrote: >But if >possible, I will try to send you >the correction of the exercises. I really think this book is very good. That would be very nice. I'm pretty advanced, but don't want to continue until I'm sure of the correct responses... After all, what if I have everything wrong from the start ?? >If you can read french easily, these books are also interesting. I'll check them out. PS: je suis trilingue, fran=E7ais, anglais et italien. Alors ... Merci, Francesca ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:51:43 +0100 From: grym@trybunal.gov.pl (Rymaszewska Grazyna) To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Re: Weni Mark Vygus wrote: > > Are we still interested in translating the Weni Text, or has the group given > up ? > > Mark V nsw-bit@msn.com Yes, I am. I have a few questions and I will be very happy to get an anwser, please. L1: At the end of line 1 there are signs whitch I do not understand: W17(xnt)+X1(t)+O39(S)+N25(HAst)+A1///// I only found in Faulkner: _xnt-S_ = garden. Maybe _s-HD xnt-S_ means: an inspector of a mountain's garden ? L2: _rdi wi Hm=f m iA.t nt smr s-HD Hm.w-nTr n niw.t=f_ His majesty give me court office as an inspector of hem-neTer priest of his necropolis ?? L3: .._zAb r nxn_ = warden of Nekhen (Faulkner) _sDm(=i) x.t_ = I listened to matters (legal or religious) _wa.ki Hna zAb tAyty TAty_ = only me and senior of the courtain, vizier _m sStA nb_ = (are) in all the sectrets L4: ///_Xnm.t m rn n nsw.t = .. entry in the name of king _n ipA.t nsw.t_ = to the royal harem _n Hw.t-wryt 6_ = to the six Graet Mansions (law-courts) _n mH-ib n Hm=f im(=i) = because of confidence of his majesty in me _r sr=f nb_ = (whitch is greater then) any dignitary Regards Grazyna Rymaszewska ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:56:07 -0100 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Francesca Subject: Re: AEL Cours d'Egyptien Hieroglyphique At 07:11 AM 3/17/98 +0100, Franck wrote: >Regarding "Cours d'Egyptien Hieroglyphique", we can compare our answers >and >communicate out of the list in french . Fine with me. All I need is your e-mail address. Mine is < sole@lunet.it > >This book is nice for step by step knowledge. That is my thought exactly. Very comprehensible. Even for beginners. >hieroglyphics as a hobby and I'm totally autodidact. Autodidact myself ! >and I'm still awaiting my Gardiner It's worth the wait, although I personally find Grandet & Mathieu's book better organized for lessons. Regards, Francesca Oops, I made an error in the previous message: I meant to write < JC MOINET Wrote : ... > ============================================================================== From: Andren4585 Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:36:30 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL Re: Weni In a message dated 98-03-18 14:16:17 EST, you write: << L1: At the end of line 1 there are signs whitch I do not understand: W17(xnt)+X1(t)+O39(S)+N25(HAst)+A1///// I only found in Faulkner: _xnt-S_ = garden. Maybe _s-HD xnt-S_ means: an inspector of a mountain's garden ?>> This probably refers to the "estates" of the pharaoh. >> L2: _rdi wi Hm=f m iA.t nt smr s-HD Hm.w-nTr n niw.t=f_ His majesty give me court office as an inspector of hem-neTer priest of his necropolis ??>> "His Majesty gave me the rank of "smer" and deputy priest of his (pyramid) town" >> L3: .._zAb r nxn_ = warden of Nekhen (Faulkner) _sDm(=i) x.t_ = I listened to matters (legal or religious) _wa.ki Hna zAb tAyty TAty_ = only me and senior of the courtain, vizier _m sStA nb_ = (are) in all the sectrets>> "His Majesty made me a judge belonging to Nekhen. His heart was more satisfied with me than with any other servant. Personally, I heard every kind of private case, there being only with me the Chief Justice and the governor of the town. (This was all done) under the auspices of the king, of the royal household and of the Six Great Houses. " Andre Renouf ============================================================================== From: "Jason Perry" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL R: AEL Gardiner's exercise Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:28:46 PST Andre, How does Gardiner difer from what Budge's lesson book? Jason ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ============================================================================== From: Andren4585 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:57:42 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL R: AEL Gardiner's exercise In a message dated 98-03-21 07:00:56 EST, you write: << Andre, How does Gardiner difer from what Budge's lesson book? >> Dear Jason, I don't know if Budge wrote a grammar that can in any way be compared to that of Gardiner. Andre Renouf ============================================================================== From: "Mark Vygus" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL Help with transliteration/translation Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:52:00 -0000 Hello, I am attempting to translate the Eloquent Peasant and am having difficulty with some words that I cannot find in Faulkner`s dictionary, can anyone help please. they are in R.B.Parkinson`s book "The tale of the Eloquent Peasant" Sna N30 Y1 ??? line B1/45 anbrw V19 Z1 ??? line B1/146 snban ??? line B1/146 Any help would be much appreciated Thank you in advance Mark V nsw-bit@msn.com ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:31:08 -0100 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk From: Francesca Subject: AEL fun / aren't you Is there a word for 'fun' or 'entertainment' in Ancient Egyptian ? What about translating a sentence such as "You are coming, aren't you ?" in Ancient Egyptian. How would the << aren't you >> be translated ? Francesca ============================================================================== From: Hans van Haarst To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:50:07 +0000 Subject: Re: AEL Help with transliteration/translation > From: Mark Vygus > To: Ancient Egyptian Language List > Subject: AEL Help with transliteration/translation > Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:52:00 -0000 > Reply-to: Ancient Egyptian Language List > Hello, > I am attempting to translate the Eloquent Peasant and am having difficulty > with some words that I cannot find in Faulkner`s dictionary, can anyone help > please. they are in R.B.Parkinson`s book "The tale of the Eloquent Peasant" > > Sna N30 Y1 ??? line B1/45 > > anbrw V19 Z1 ??? line B1/146 > > snban ??? line B1/146 > > Any help would be much appreciated > Thank you in advance > > Mark V nsw-bit@msn.com > Dear Mark, B1/45 : inn=i aA=i Hr Sna=s or Sna 10 It is for her prize (or the prize of ten) that i take my donkey with me B1/146 : anbrw in tr snb di n=k O anbrw, health is given to you anbrw is unknown, it only occurs here (hapax legomenon) I hope this helps. Kind regards, Hans van Haarst emailadress : hans@knor.demon.nl ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 21 Mar 98 22:35:13 UT From: "Michael Mac Donagh" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: RE: AEL R: AEL Gardiner's exercise Jason. The problem is that Budge's books are very much out of date and are wrong in places. Budge's transcription system is also non-standard. Gardiner's book is the best, so far, in English - but even that is out of date in places. Regards, Mike. ============================================================================== From: Michael Tilgner To: 'Ancient Egyptian Language List' Subject: AEL AW: AEL fun / aren't you Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:44:36 +0100 Dear Francesca, in answering your first question: The "Lexikon der Aegyptologie", Vol. II, column 329-331, entry "Freude" (joy, gladness, delight, pleasure) reports that there are 90 words in the "Woerterbuch" (Wb) for joy, to rejoice, to laugh etc., for example - all from the same wort stem hi "jubilate": ihi, hi, hA, THw, THH, THHw.t, THn, THnn - combinations with ib "heart", as the heart is also center of = emotions: Awt-ib ("joy" =3D "long/wide of heart"), Ams-ib, imA-ib, wnf-ib, nDm-ib ("joyful" =3D "sweet of heart"), xnt-ib, xntS-ib ("delight" m "in/over"), dfa-ib=20 - determinative nose D19, because sweet scents cause good feelings: rSw, rSw.t ("joy"), xntS ("have enjoyment"), tfnn =3D Tfnn=20 Other determinatives expressing joy are: A32 (hi), A28 (wAS), A8 (hnw), A2 (rSw), E5 (ams-ib) and others. An originally planned entry "Vergnuegen" (pleasure, enjoyment, entertainment) is missing in the "Lexikon der Aegyptologie"! However, you will find "Gastmahl" (feast, banquet), "Musik" (music), "Tanz" (dance), and others. There is also an interesting chapter by Barbara Metz on "the pleasures of life" (retranslation) in a book of the National Geographic Society = on Egypt (I've only the German edition). Best wishes, Michael Tilgner mtilgner@baan.nl > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Francesca [SMTP:sole@lunet.it] > Gesendet am: Sonntag, 22. M=E4rz 1998 08:31 > An: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk > Betreff: AEL fun / aren't you >=20 > Is there a word for 'fun' or 'entertainment' in Ancient Egyptian ? >=20 > What about translating a sentence such as "You are coming, aren't you > ?" in > Ancient Egyptian. How would the << aren't you >> be translated ? >=20 > Francesca >=20 ==============================================================================