From: "Ned Ramm" To: Subject: AEL Scarab Texts Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:16:54 -0000 Hi, I'm new to the list and am currently teaching myself Middle Egyptian. I've translated the text at http://www.rostau.org.uk/AEgyptian-L/scarabs/Scarab03AmenhotepsProwessAsLion-Hunter.jpg . Is there anywhere on the site where I can check my translation? Kind regards, Ned Ramm ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 00:41:42 -0800 From: Sam_Kimpton To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL coffin of Iker Its a mystery to me as well. I looked through the sign lists in Hannig Vol. 1 and even Budge's dictionary. I did not see it in either of these sources. I do agree that it looks like a variant of sw. If anyone has a clue as to what this sign is please contribute. Sam Saint Simian wrote: > But then what is the glyph immediately after m that looks > like sw? I don't recognise that thing on the top of it. Then we have > t and Hnq.t, and I assume that next glyph is a variant of X4 being > used as a determinative. > ============================================================================== From: "Helen Lowell" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL coffin of Iker Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:58:43 -0000 I too would like to see MdC of the whole band Thanks, Helen ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:35:07 +1100 From: "Saint Simian" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL coffin of Iker PS, I just realised our mystery sw-like sign may be M105. It looks like the sedge plant with a crescent on top. Does anyone know what M105 means? ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:51:40 -0500 From: "John Corridan" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL coffin of Iker Hi everyone: I haven't had time to read all the emails so someone may have already mentioned this, but if anyone is curious about the fact that some of the glyphs look a little weird (ie. they don't necessarily resemble the prototypical examples we see on sign lists), I've seen another coffin with very similar penmanship (for lack of a better word). It is the coffin of Menqebu at Boston's Museum of Fine Arts. MFA has some photos you can see online. In both cases, the X2 bread is redendered with a sort of cone-top, and I'm sure there's other similarities as well. John Corridan ============================================================================== From: "Michael Tilgner" To: "Forum AEL" Subject: Re: AEL Scarab Texts Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:46:02 +0100 Ned Ramm asked: > Is there anywhere on the site where I can check my translation? of the lion-hunting scarab of Amenophis III. Please have a look at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/4482/EEFtexts.html#3 entry: "The Commemorative Scarabs of Amenophis III" with online resources of these texts, including English translations. Best wishes, Michael Tilgner ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:25:57 +1100 From: "Saint Simian" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL coffin of Iker Here is the MdC for the coffin of Iqr. I exported this from JSesh, so you may have to modify it a little to use in other programs. It's mostly kosher, though. Here is the Osiris side of the coffin: #b-[[-sw_-Htp:t*p-]]_-X8-#e-ir:st#34-A40_-nb:d-Dd-w-O49:Z1_-W18-x:t-n:R14-G4-w-A40_-nb:Ab-b-Dw-w-O49:Z1_-m_-st-st-st-t:f_-nb:t_-nfr-f:r*t-Z3_-w-a:F16:t-D60-mw_-O70_-m_-M12_-X3:W22-X4\R90:._-! F1:H1_-V6:S115_-i-x:t:nb_-n:kA-n:i*U1-x:.-F39:Z1-i-i_-i-q:r_-! [Htp] Di [nsw] Asir nb Dd.w xnt.y imn.tyw nb AbD.w m s.wt=f nb.t nfr.t wab.t pri.t-xrw m xA t Hnq.t kA.w apd.w sSr mnH.t ix.t nb(.t) n kA n.y imAx.y Iqr A royal offering of Osiris, lord of Busiris, who is foremost of those in the West, lord of Abydos on all his perfect, pure thrones, [as he gives] a voice-offering of 1000 bread and beer, cattle and fowl, linen and clothing and everything for the ka of the honoured one Iqer And here is the MdC for the Anubis side, which is all readable up to a specific point: sw_-Htp:t*p#34-X8_-i-n:p-E16-A40_-#b-[[-tp-p:y-]]-#e-Dw:f#13-nb:r*Z1:q-r:t:Aa1_-i-Z11_-w&t_-w-#b-..-..-..-#e Htp Di nsw Inp.w [tp.y] Dw=f nb rA qr.t im.y wt [...] A royal offering of Anubis, who is upon his hill, lord of the mouth of the cave, who is within the bandages [...] Like Aayko said, this writing uses a lot of strange glyphs. There is the strange sedge plant, which we've taken as a variant of M12; instead of O3 they use O70, which is the same but without the bread and beer underneath; and S115 for S27 (three pillars instead of two). We also have some mutilated glyphs. These are my favourite Egyptian quirks. In the close-up shots you'll see that the serpents I9 in s.wt=f and nfr.t are written cut in half. The idea was that the glyphs were of dangerous animals, so by "killing" them you robbed them of their power. As far as I know, these particular mutilations are not in the sign lists. Does anyone have a sign number for them? All corrections, admonitions, etc. are welcome! Saint Simian. ============================================================================== From: To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Scarab Texts Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:46:50 -0600 Hey Ned, Yes, I have the collations for the Scarab translations which we did during Winter Break 2006, so you can check your work against them. I can't recall now whether or not I sent the collations to AEL or not. I can share the collations with you, and maybe when the Allen 2005 group moves onto translating in a month or two you will want to join them. We will discuss those translations on GlyphStudy, send work to AEL Translation, and then post the collations on AEL. Yes, many lists best, Karen the mod at GlyphStudy reply privately, send to eramm@blueyonder.co.uk > > Hi, > I'm new to the list and am currently teaching myself Middle Egyptian. > I've translated the text at > http://www.rostau.org.uk/AEgyptian-L/scarabs/Scarab03AmenhotepsProwessAsLion-Hunter.jpg . > Is there anywhere on the site where I can check my translation? > Kind regards, > Ned Ramm > > > ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:49:39 -0600 From: Robert Myers To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL coffin of Iker John Corridan wrote: > Hi everyone: > > I haven't had time to read all the emails so someone may have already > mentioned this, but if anyone is curious about the fact that some of the > glyphs look a little weird (ie. they don't necessarily resemble the > prototypical examples we see on sign lists), I've seen another coffin with > very similar penmanship (for lack of a better word). It is the coffin of > Menqebu at Boston's Museum of Fine Arts. MFA has some photos you can see > online. In both cases, the X2 bread is redendered with a sort of cone-top, > and I'm sure there's other similarities as well. > > John Corridan > Hi; Some time ago on the GlyphStudy group, a gentleman (whom I believe now has a doctorate) mentioned that there was no real paleography for the Coffin Texts. He posted some very interesting information. But, I would like to ask the members of this list to mention sites and sources toward such a study. Please, if that is satisfactory? I find such an inquiry most intriguing. Now that we have books like those of Werner Forman, it should be easier to publish such a tome with copious illustrations. Thanks. Best regards, Bob ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:22:11 +1100 From: "Saint Simian" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL coffin of Iker Aayko has kindly pointed out some corrections to my transliteration. It seems I was a bit hasty! apd.w --> Apd.w mnH.t --> mnx.t I looked up some other coffin dedications and found that M105 seems to be used as a variant of M12. That would explain the strange sw-like glyph with the crescent on top. I should also point out there are new diary entries for the 20th and 21st where there are clearer photos of some of the glyphs: http://www.excavacionegipto.com/diario/2008/2-20/diario08_2_20.html http://www.excavacionegipto.com/diario/2008/2-21/diario08_2_21.html Enjoy! Saint Simian ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:46:33 -0800 (PST) From: Weben Banu Subject: RE: AEL A title of Sekhmet To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Thank you everyone, for your insights on my vague query! I apologize for disappearing these pasts few weeks- my sister had her first baby three weeks early, and I was whisked away on a somewhat unexpected and last minute flight! But they are both doing very well, and now back to language matters! Thank you for the source materials- it is wonderful to have solid and reliable references to dig through! Kind regards, Katherine ==============================================================================