From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 19.20 MUCH BELATED Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:19:43 -0500 19.20 Transliteration: mj mj jb.j, mdw.j n.k, wSb.k n.j TAzw.j. Dissection: 1) mj = "come", imperative (16.2.2). G17-D36-M17-D54 2) mj = "now", enclitic particle (16.7.6) 3) jb.j = "my heart" 4) mdw.j = subjunctive adverb clause (19.8), "in order that/so that/that I may speak," from mdwj (verb 4ae-inf.) "speak" 5) n.k = "to you" 6) [and] 7) wSb.k = subjunctive adverb clause, "in order that/so that/that you may answer" 8) n.j = "(to/for) me" 9) TAzw.j = "my sentences" (singular TAz "sentence (of speech)") Translation: Come now, my heart, in order that I may speak to you and you might answer my sentences for me. Allen's Translation: Come now, my heart, so that I may speak to you and you may answer for me my sentences. 19.20 mj mj jb.j mdwj.j n.k wSb.k n.j TAz(w).j mj = (imperative) come (see 16.2.2) mj = particle 'now' (see 16.7.6) mdwj = speak wSb = (verb, 3lit) answer TAz = sentence of speach Come, now, my heart. I would speak to you [so that] you would answer to me [with] my sentences ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY 19.19 MUCH BELATED, BUT BETTER LATE THAN NEVER Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:15:41 -0500 19.19 jr jqr.k grg pr jr.k zA n sjmA nTrw When you are successful and have set up a house, you will have a son, at the pleasure of the god jr = if, when, as (S19.7) jqr = adjective-verb 3-lit = excellent, successful jqr.k = verb + suffix pronoun = you will be successful jr jqr.k = if you are to be successful/when you are successful grg = verb 3-lit = set up, found, establish pr = noun = house grg pr = established a house jrj = verb 3ae-inf = make, do jr.k = verb + suffix pronoun = you make zA = noun = son jr.k zA = (then) you will have a son n = preposition = for, at sjmA = noun = pleasure nTrw = noun = gods n sjmA nTr = for/at the pleasure of the god jr mtj.f pXr.f n qdw.k sDm.f n sbAy(w)t.k = If he is straightforward, serves your character, and listens to your teachings jr = if, when, as (S19.7) mtj.f = adjective + suffix pronoun = he is straightforward pXr = verb 3-lit = go around pXr.f n = he serves (see dictionary) qdw.k = noun + suffix pronoun = your character sDm.f n = verb + suffix pronoun = he listens to sbAy(w)t.k = noun + suffix pronoun = your teachings sjqr sxrw.f m Xnw pr.k nw.f jSwt.k r st jrj = make excellent his position inside your house so that he can look after your things at the place appropriate to them (This could mean that he must be on the spot to look after your things properly, or that he must be there to ensure nothing is stolen). sjqr = verb 3-lit = make excellent, successful sxrw.f = noun + suffix pronoun = his plan, conduct, position m Xnw = inside pr.k = noun + suffix pronoun = your house sjqr sxrw.f m Xnw pr.k = make excellent his position inside your house nw.f = verb 2-lit + suffix pronoun = (so that) he will look after, see to jSwt.k = thing, things r = preposition = at st = seat, place + determinative for house jrj = prepositional adverb = with respect to it/them nw.f jSwt.k r st jrj = so that he will look after your things at the place appropriate to them (19.82 or 19.8.3) HjHj n.f zp nb jqr zA.k pw .... jm.k jwd jb.k r.f = Seek every opportunity for him. He is your son .. you should not separate your heart from him HjHj = verb 4-lit = seek n.f = preposition + suffix pronoun = for him zp = noun = time, occasion, event nb = every, all jqr = adjective-verb 3-lit = excellent, successful HjHj n.f zp nb jqr = Seek every excellent occasion for him zA.k = your son zA.k pw = he is your son (A pw sentence) .... jm.k = negation (S19.11.2) = you should not jwd = verb 3-lit = push off jb.k = noun + suffix pronoun = your heart r.f = preposition + suffix pronoun = from him jm.k jwd jb.k r.f = you should not push off your heart from him jr nnm.f th.f sxrw.k tm.f jrt sbAywt.k = if he transgresses, disobeys your advice and does not carry out your instructions jr = if (S19.7) nnm.f = verb 3-lit + suffix pronoun = he transgresses th.f = verb 3ae-inf = he violates sxrw.k = noun + suffix pronoun = your plans, advice jr nnm.f th.f sxrw.k = if he transgresses, violates your plans tm.f = verb 2-lit + suffix pronoun = he does not jrj = verb 3ae-inf = make, do jrt = infinitive but should be read as negatival complement (hint from Allen) S.19.11.3 = tm.f sDm form where sDm is the negatival complement tm.f jrt = he does not do sbAywt.k = noun + suffix pronoun = your teachings, instructions Xzj sxw.f m Xnw pr.k ... rwj.k sw nn zA.k js pw = his position will be wretched inside your house ... you must drive him off, he is not your son Xzj = adjective-verb 3ae-inf = wretched, miserable, vile sxw.f = noun = his plan, advice, conduct, position m Xnw = inside pr.k = noun +suffix pronoun = your house Xzj sxw.f m Xnw pr.k = wretched his position inside your house if Xzj is the subjunctive then = his position will be wretched inside your house I don't know how Allen gets 'let his position be..' ... rwj.k = verb 3ae-inf + suffix pronoun = you must escape, drive off sw = dependent pronoun = him nn = negative zA.k = your son nn js pw zA.k js pw = he is not your son rwj.k sw nn zA.k js pw = you must drive him off, he is not your son The whole thing: When you are successful and have set up a house, you will have a son, at the pleasure of the god. If he is straightforward, serves your character, and listens to your teachings, make excellent his position inside your house so that he can look after your things at the place appropriate to them. Seek every opportunity for him. He is your son .. you should not separate your heart from him. If he transgresses, disobeys your advice and does not carry out your instructions, his position will be wretched inside your house; you must drive him off, he is not your son 19.19 This is a long one, so I decided to go by lines. LINE 1: jr jqr.k grg pr jr.k zA n sjmA nTr When you are successful and you have built a house, you should beget (make) a son for the pleasure of the god [Horus] jr = a particle, introduces a protasis an may be translated as "as", "when" or "if" jqr (adj. verb 3-lit) = excellent successful grg (verb 3-lit) = set up, establish jr (verb) = do zA = son sjmA = pleasure LINE 2: jr mtj.f pXr.f n qDw.k sDm.f n sbAyt.k If he is straightforward and he serves your character and he listens to your teachings, mtr/mtj (verb 3-lit) = testify, bear witness, (adj straightforward) pXr n (verb 3-lit) = serve qDw = form, manner, character sbAyt = teaching, instruction LINE 3: sjqr sxrw.f m Xnw pr.k nw.f jSwt.k r st jrj [then] You should make excellent his position inside your house so that he might look after your things at their respective places sjqr (verb caus 3-lit) = make excellent, successful sxr = plan, method, advice, conduct, position Xnw m = inside pr = house nw (verb 2-lit) = look after, see to jSwt = things st = place jrj = (nisbe) with respect to ... LINE 4: h(j)hj n.f zp nb jqr zA.k pw... jm.k jwD jb.k r.f [And] You should seek out for him every excellent occasion. He is your son...You should not push him away (push off your heart from him) h(j)h(j) = (verb 4-lit) seek zp = time, occasion, event, deed nb = every jqr = excellent zA = son jm.k = negative counterpaty of the subjunctive expressing a wish or command jwD = (verb 3-lit) push off jb = heart LINE 5: jr nnm.f th.f sxrw.k tm.f jrt sbAyt.k If he will transgress and violate your rules and does not do your teachings nnm (verb 3-lit) = transgress thj (verb 3ae-inf) = violate tm.f = negative counterpart of the subjunctive in dependent clauses LINE 6: Xzj sxrw.f m Xnw pr.k... rwj.k sw nn zA.k js pw You should make miserable his position in your house... You should drive him away. He is not your son. Xzj = (adj verb 3ae inf) wretched, miserable, vile rwj = (verb 3ae inf) go away, escape, drive off nn js = negates the phrase 'zA.k pw' ********************************************************************* 19.19 TRANSLITERATION: jr jqr.k grg pr jr.k zA n sjm(A) nTr jr mtj.f pHr.f n qdw.k sDm.f n sbAywt.k sjqr sxrw.f m Xnw pr.k nw.f jSwt.k r st jrj H(j)Hj n.f zp nb jqr zA.k pw . jm.k jwd jb.k r.f jr nnm.f th.f sxrw.k tm.f jrt sbAywt.k Xzj sxrw.f m Xnw pr.k . rwj.k sw nn zA.k js pw TRANSLATION(S): I think this passage can be construed in several differet ways because the protasis marker jr does not always appear (19.7) and there seems to be no marker of the apodosis (usually `then' in English). Therefore, it appears that for many of the verbs in this passage, it is a matter of interpretation which is in protasis and which is not. For sure, the verbs marked with jr are protasis.It is possible that lines two and three and the first part of line four are all part of a large protasis. Not until we see zA.k pw in line four are we in the apodosis for sure. Line five and the first part of line six again could be protasis, we are not in the apodosis for sure until we reach nn zA.k js pw at the end of line six. In fact, on stylistic grounds I like the idea of long protases describing the various good or bad points of behavior which then define, the boy's status as son or not son which is then explicitly stated in the apodosis. line one: "If you would be successful, establish your house. Produce a son for the pleasure of god." line two: "If he is straightforward he will serve your character. (With the result that) He will hearken to your teaching." "If he bears witness and serves your character, he will hearken to your teaching." "If he bears witness, (if) serves your character, (if) he hearkens to your teaching" line three: "(He) will make excellent his conduct within your house, taking care of your things that are there in the place." "(If he) behaves well in your house, (if) he takes care of your things that are there." line four: "He will seek every opportunity for doing well. He is your son . You should not separate your heart from him." (If) he seeks every opportunity for doing well, then he is your son.You should not separate your heart from him. line five: "If he transgresses, (if) he violates your intentions, he will not act (in accord with) your teachings." "If he transgress he will violate.etc." "If he transgresses, (if) he violates.. (if) he will not act." line six: "(then) his conduct is wretched in your house . you should drive him off. He is not your son.""(If) his conduct." FOR DISCUSSION: There are a couple of weak verbs in this passage, which show forms ending in -j. 19.2 talks about some of the verbs ending in the double reed, I assume that the dual marking is equivalent. Is that right? DETAILS: M17-D21-M17-N29:D21-Y1:V31A-W12:D21-U17:Y1-O1*Z1-D4:V31A-G39-A1- Z1:N35-S29-M17-M1-G17-Y1-R8-G7 M17-D21-D52:X1*Z4-D50*D50-Y1:I9-F46:D21-D54:I9-N35-Aa28-D46:W24-Y1:Z2- V31:F21-G17-I9:N35-S29-D58-N14-G1-M17-M17-X1:Y1-Z2:V31A S29-M17-N29:D21-Y1-S29-Aa1:D21-Z7-Y1:Z2-I9-G17-F26:N35-W24*Z7:O1- O1*Z1:V31A-N35:U19-W24-Z7-V1-A24-I9-M17-N37:X1*Z9-Y1:Z2-V31A:D21-Q1- X1:O1-M17-D21:Z4 . V28-V28-Z4:D54-N35:I9-O34:Q3*O50-V30-M17-N29:D21-Y1-G39-A1-Z1:V31A-Q3- Z7 . M17-G17-D35:V31A-E9-Z7-D46:D54-F34*Z1:V31A-D21:I9 M17-D21-M22*M22-N35:N35-T34-G17-G37:I9-X1:O4-D56-D54:I9-S29-Aa1:D21- Z7-Y1:Z2-V31A-X1:U15-G17-I9-D4:X1-S29-D58-N14-G1-M17-M17-X1:Y1-Z2:V31A . F32:O34-Z4:G37-S29-Aa1:D21-Z7-Y1:Z2-I9-G17-F26:N35-W24*Z7:O1- O1*Z1:V31A . D21:Z7-M17-D54:V31A-M23-Z7-D35:N35-G39-A1-Z1:V31A-M17-S29-Q3-Z7 ORIENTATION: right to left, horizontal, normal line one: M17-D21 j-r M17-N29:D21-Y1:V31A j-q-r-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS-k W12:D21-U17:Y1 complement-complement-grg-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS O1*Z1 pr- Used as ideog of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms D4:V31A jr.k G39-A1-Z1 zA- Determinative MAN- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms N35 n S29-M17-M1-G17-Y1 s-complement- Phonogr jmA, ofen with only G17 m as complement = jm(A)-complement-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS R8-G7 nTr- Det DIVINE jr jqr.k grg pr jr.k zA n sjmA nTr VOCABULARY line one: jqr - adj verb, 3lit - "excellent, successful" grg - verb, 3lit- "set up, found, establish" n sjmA - prepositional phrase - "pleasure" nTr - noun - "god" GRAMMAR line one: jr jqr.k - jr marks the protasis, jqr is subjunctive (19.7), k is the 2nd sing masc suffix pronoun as subject. grg - imperative pr - object of grg jr.k - second consecutive imperative softened to a subjunctive (19.8.3) zA - object of jrj n sjmA nTr - prepositional phrase, sjmA nTr form a genitival absolute. TRANSLATION line one: "If you would be successful, establish your house. Produce a son for the pleasure of god." TRANSLITERATION line two: M17-D21 j-r D52:X1*Z4-D50*D50-Y1:I9 mt-complement- Phonogr j as ending- When doubled, det ACCURATE-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS-f F46:D21-D54:I9 pHr-complement- Det MOTION-f N35 n Aa28-D46:W24-Y1:Z2-V31 qd-complement- Var in N33 in words with qd, N33 - Det in words with qd (from qdj go around)-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS- Det in PLURAL-k F21-G17-I9 sDm-complement-f N35 n S29-D58-N14-G1-M17-M17-X1:Y1-Z2:V31A complement-complement-sbA- complement-y-t-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS- Det in PLURAL-k jr mt.f pHr.f n qdw.k sDm.f n sbAywt.k VOCABULARY line two: mtr/mtj - verb,3lit - "testify, bear witness", adjective - "straightforward" pXr - verb, 3 lit - "serve" + n qdw - noun - "form, manner, character" sDm - verb, 3lit - "obey" + n sbAyt - noun - "teaching, instruction" GRAMMAR line two: jr mt.f - jr marks the protasis, mtj is subjunctive, f is the suffix pronoun subject. pXr.f n qdw.k - could be a continued protasis with jr understood, could be the apodosis. Anyway, pXr is subjunctive, f is the subject. k is the subject of qdw. sDm n - subjunctive, still protasis or possibly apodosis as a result (19.8.2). n sbAywt.k - prepositional phrase, the suffix pronoun k indicates ownership. TRANSLATION line two: "If he is straightforward he will serve your character. (With the result that) He will hearken to your teaching." "If he bears witness and serves your character, he will hearken to your teaching." "If he bears witness, (if) serves your character, (if) he hearkens to your teaching" line three: S29-M17-N29:D21-Y1 s-j-q-r-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS S29-Aa1:D21-Z7-Y1:Z2-I9 s-x-r-w- det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS- Det in PLURAL-f G17 m F26:N35-W24*Z7:O1 Xn-complement-nw-complement- Det BUILDING, PLACE O1*Z1:V31A pr- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms-k N35:U19-W24-Z7-V1-A24-I9 complement-nw-complement-w- Det ROPE, TIE, COIL (included because of the meaning of typing things up, taking care of things?)- Det. FORCE, EFFORT, well, it takes effort to take care of things.-f M17-N37:X1*Z9-Y1:Z2-V31A j-S-t- Det BREAK, CROSS, NUMBER, I don't know why this sign is here-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS- Det in PLURAL-k D21 r Q1-X1 st-complement O1 pr M17-D21:Z4 j-r-y sjqr sxrw.f m Xnw pr.k nw.f jSwt.k r st jrj VOCABULARY: line three sjqr - verb, 3lit - "make excellent, successful" sxr - noun - "plan, method, advice, conduct, position" Xnw - noun - "interior, home". m Xnw "inside" nw - verb, 2lit - "look after, see to" jSwt - noun - "thing" r - preposition st - noun - "place, throne" jrj - adverb GRAMMAR: line three sjqr - Subjunctive with omitted subject. The 3rd person plural suffix is omitted because it is obvious. (19.5). This could still be protasis, but we're probably in the apodosis by now, almost certainly. sxr - object of sjqr m Xnw - prepositional phrase of position pr.k - Xnw pr is a direct genitive with attached suffix pronoun indicating ownership. nw.f - subjunctive, apodosis for sure. jSwt - object of nw r st jrj - preposition indicating the object of interest, st is the object, jrj an adverb of place. TRANSLATION: line three "(He) will make excellent his conduct within your house, taking care of your things that are there in the place." "(If he) behaves well in your house, (if) he takes care of your things that are there." line four: .V28-V28-Z4:D54 H-H- Phonogr j as ending - Det MOTION N35:I9 n.f O34:Q3*O50 complement-complement-Phonogr zp in zp "occasion, event" V30 nb M17-N29:D21-Y1 j-q-r-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS G39-A1-Z1:V31A zA- Determinative MAN- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms-k Q3-Z7 p-w --------- LACUNA ------------- M17-G17-D35:V31A j-m- Det NEGATION-k E9-Z7-D46:D54 jw-complement-d- Det MOTION F34*Z1:V31A jb- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms-k D21:I9 r.f H(j)Hj n.f zp nb jqr zA.k pw . jm.k jwd jb.k r.f VOCABULARY: line four H(j)Hj - verb, 4lit - "seek" n - preposition f - suffix pronoun - 3rd sing masc zp - noun - "time" nb - adjective - "every" jqr - adj verb,3lit - "excellent" zA - noun - "son" pw - demonstrative pronoun jmj - verb, defective, negative jwd - verb, 3lit - "push off from" + r GRAMMAR: line four H(j)Hj - Subjunctive with omitted subject. The 3rd person plural suffix is omitted because it is obvious. (19.5). n.f - prepositional phrase, dative of advantage. zp nb - object of H(j)Hj zA pw - A pw construction. jm.k etc. - see 19.11.2. jm apparently indicates a prohibition or = caution: do not or should not. It is subjunctive. jb.k - object of jwd. k is a suffix pronoun, 2nd sing masc indicating ownership r.f - prepositional phrase, r of separation. f is the 3rd sing masc suffix pronoun referring to zA, the son. TRANSLATION: line four "He will seek every opportunity for doing well. He is your son . You should not separate your heart from him." (If) he seeks every opportunity for doing well, then he is your son.You should not separate your heart from him. line five: M17-D21-M22*M22-N35:N35-T34-G17-G37:I9-X1:O4-D56-D54:I9-S29-Aa1:D21- Z7-Y1:Z2-V31A-X1:U15-G17-I9-D4:X1-S29-D58-N14-G1-M17-M17-X1:Y1-Z2:V31A M17-D21 j-r M22*M22-N35:N35-T34-G17-G37:I9 nn-complement-complement-nm-complement- Det SMALL, BAD-f X1:O4-D56-D54:I9 t-h- Det FOOT (kicking away or treading underfoot?)- Det MOTION-f S29-Aa1:D21-Z7-Y1:Z2-V31A s-x-r-w-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS- Det in PLURAL-k X1:U15-G17-I9 complement-tm-complement-f D4:X1 jr-t S29-D58-N14-G1-M17-M17-X1:Y1-Z2:V31A complement-complement-sbA- complement-y-t-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS- Det in PLURAL-k jr nnm.f th.f sxrw.k tm.f jrt sbAywt.k VOCABULARY: line five nnm - verb, 3lit - "transgress" thj - verb, 3ai - "violate" sxr - noun - "conduct, position, plan" tm - negative verb jrj - verb, 3ai - "do" sbAyt - noun - "teaching, instruction" GRAMMAR: line five jr - introduces another protasis nnm - subjunctive, subject is omitted because it is obvious (19.5) thj - subject, still part of the protasis, but could be construed as apodisis tm.f jrt - tm.f + negatival complement (19.11.3) sbAywt.k - object of jrt, the 3rd sing suffix pronoun signifies ownership. TRANSLATION: line five "If he transgresses, (if) he violates your intentions, he will not act (in accord with) your teachings." "If he transgress he will violate.etc." "If he transgresses, (if) he violates.. (if) he will not act." line six: F32:O34-Z4:G37-S29-Aa1:D21-Z7-Y1:Z2-I9-G17-F26:N35-W24*Z7:O1- O1*Z1:V31A F32:O34-Z4:G37 X-z-j- Det SMALL, BAD S29-Aa1:D21-Z7-Y1:Z2-I9 s-x-r-w-det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS- Det in PLURAL-f G17 m F26:N35-W24*Z7:O1 Xn-complement-nw-complement- Det BUILDING, PLACE O1*Z1:V31A pr- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms-k ----LACUNA ---- D21:Z7-M17-D54:V31A r-w-j- Det MOTION-k M23-Z7 sw-complement D35:N35 nn-complement G39-A1-Z1:V31A zA- Determinative MAN- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms- M17-S29 j-s Q3-Z7 p-w Xzj sxrw.f m Xnw pr.k . rwj.k sw nn zA.k js pw VOCABULARY: line six Xzj - adj verb,3ai - "wretched, miserable, vile" sxr - noun - "conduct, position, plan" m Xnw - prepositional phrase of position pr.k - Xnw pr is a direct genitive with attached suffix pronoun indicating ownership. rwj - verb, 3ai - "go away, escape, drive off" nn .. js - negative particles zA - noun - "son" pw - demonstrative pronoun GRAMMAR: line six Xzj sxrw.f - nfr Hr construction (6.5) "wretched of plans". Xzj is subjunctive at the same time, with omitted subject. f is a suffix pronoun indicating ownership. m Xnw - prepositional phrase Xnw pr.k - direct genitive with the suffix pronoun k indicating ownership rwj.k - rwj is a subjunctive of exhortation, wish, or polite command (19.5.1). k is the suffix pronoun indicating the subject. nn .. js is the negation of a nominal clause (11.5) zA .. pw - A pw construction, interweaved with the nn..js construction. (11.5) TRANSLATION: line six "(then) his conduct is wretched in your house . you should drive him off. He is not your son." "(if) his conduct is wretched in your house . you should drive him off. He is not your son." ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 20.19 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:37:17 -0500 20.19 read right to left wn.j jm.f Hna snw.j I used to be in it with my siblings. (I was in it with my siblings) wn perfective of wnn 2ae-gem existed was .j personal pronoun I jm preposition in .f personal pronoun it Hna preposition 8.2.9 with snw noun siblings .j personal pronoun my 20.19 TRANSLITERATION: wn.j jm.f Hna sn nw.j wn.j - "I was", perfective of 2ae-gem. verb wnn "exist" perfective of wnn expresses the past existence of something .j - 1MS suffix personal pronoun jm.f - "inherent in it" (jm - prepositional nisbe, from prep. m "in", .f - 3MS suffix personal pronoun) Hna - connection "[together] with" snw.j - "my brothers" snw - plural noun "brothers", .j - 1MS suffix personal pronoun TRANSLATION: "I was in it together with my brothers" 20.19 wn.j jm.f Hna snw.j wnn = verb 2ae-gem = exist wn.j = perfective = I was jm.f = adverbial preposition + suffix pronoun = in it Hna = preposition = with snw.j = noun + suffix pronoun = my siblings (the determinatives of a man and a woman indicate at least one brother and one sister wn.j jm.f Hna snw.j = I was in it with my siblings ************************************************ 20.19 transliteration: wn.j jm.f Hna snw.j translation: I was in it with my siblings This sentence starts off with the perfective form of the verb 'wnn' ("exist, be"). The 1CS suffix pronoun 'j' attached to 'wn' is the subject ("I") of the clause. The perfective of 'wnn' is commonly used to form a sentence that would otherwise have had an adverbial predicate into one that explicitly pertains to a past situation. In this sentence, the role of adverbial predicate would have been played by the two prepositional phrases 'jm.f' and 'Hna snw.j'. The prepositional phrase 'jm.f' starts off with the form ('jm') of the preposition 'm' that is used with suffix pronouns. The 3MS suffix pronoun 'f' ("it") attached to 'jm' is the object of the preposition. 'jm.f' can be translated "in it". The other prepositional phrase starts off with the preposition 'Hna' which means "together with". The object of the preposition is 'snw.j' where 'snw' is the masculine plural of 'sn,' which means "brother". That both genders are included in the plural is indicated by the presence of the B1 (seated woman) determinative as well as the A1 (seated man) determinative; so 'snw' is here translated as "siblings" (rather than "brothers"). The 1CS suffix pronoun 'j' attached to 'snw' indicates possession ("my"). Thus 'Hna snw.j' means "together with my siblings". The cognate adverbial sentence is 'jw.j jm.f Hna snw.j', which would thus mean "I am/was in it with my siblings". The presence of the perfective of 'wnn' transforms this into a sentence that explicitly pertains to a past situation; thus the sentence is translated as "I was in it with my siblings". ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY 20.15 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:11:14 -0500 20.15 jn jw wAH.tw hrw n aHa, jn jw xbA.tw jm.f r pw Complex sentence with two parallel, independent (rhetorical) questions. * jn jw: structure to introduce a question. (Allen, 20.19) * wAH: verb (3-lit), 'to add' (also can mean 'set' or 'place') * wAH.tw: imperfective construction with the impersonal suffix '.tw' * hrw: noun, 'day' * aHaw: noun, 'lifetime' * n aHa: prepositional phrase with the 'n' giving a dative-like sense of goal; 'to a lifetime'. Translation of the first part: a) [QUESTION-MARKER] one-adds (a) day to (a) lifetime. b) Does one / Can one add a day to the (length of) a lifetime? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - * xbA: verb (3-lit), 'to subtract', 'to diminish' * xbA.tw: imperfective construction with the impersonal suffix '.tw' * jm.f: prepositional phrase from the simple preposition 'm'. When used adverbially or with suffix pronouns it changes to 'jm'. 'from him / from it' * r pw: 'either'. This was first introduced in lesson xx, in the construction 'X Y r pw', meaning "X or Y", where X and Y are nouns. Apparently it can also be used to connect clauses, as well. Translation of the second part: a) [QUESTION-MARKER] one-subtracts from-it either. b) Does one / Can one subtract (a day) from it either? The object is omitted, since it would be clear from the first clause what is being added or subtracted. Overall translation: "Can you add a day to the span of a lifetime, or can you take one away?" Note: the imperfective with '.tw' can also be translated into English as a passive. So the sentence could just as well be cast as "Can a day BE ADDED to the span of a lifetime, or can it BE TAKEN AWAY?" ********************************************************** 20.15 jn jw wAH.tw hrw n aHaw jn jw xbA.tw jm.f r-pw jn jw = marks a predicate question with imperfective wAH = set, place; add, stop, remain, last tw = impersonal pronoun, 'one' hrw = day n = 'to' aHaw = lifetime xbA = hack up, subtract, diminish jm.f = from it r-pw = either, whichever (of the two) SO: Can one add a day to a lifetime or can one subtract from it? Note: two similar questions with subj-imperfective construction in both, used to express generalization. In §4.12 Allen says that if placed after two nouns, it means 'either = of the two'. Faulknertranslates it as a 'conj. or'. So, since there are two identically structured questions before 'r-pw' I would just put the word 'or' between the two. 20.15 Transliteration: jn jw wAH.tw hrw n aHa(w) jn jw xbA.tw jm.f r pw Dissection: 1) jn jw = (20.19) introduces question with imperfective 2) wAH.tw = (verb 3-lit) "add" + 2nd person masc. singular dependent pronoun 2a) jn jw wAH.tw = "Can you add/Are you able to add" 3) hrw = "day" 4) n = "to" 5) aHa(w) = "lifetime" 6) jn jw = see #1 7) xbA.tw = (verb 3-lit) "subtract" + 2nd person masc. singular dependent pronoun 8) jm.f = "from it" (i.e. aHaw) 9) r pw = "either" (according to Allen's hint) Translation: Can you add a day to a lifetime? Can you subtract from it either? QUESTION: Could .tw in both #2 and #7 be the impersonal pronoun and be translated wAH.tw "one adds"or xbA.tw "one subtracts"? ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 20.17 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:23:14 -0500 20.17 read right to left z(j) pw wn.(w), Xw.n-jnpw rn.f, sXtj pw.n sXt smAt, jst wn Hmt.f, mrt rn.s There was a man, he whom Anubis has protected. He was a peasant of the Wadi Natrun, and he had a wife named Meret. z(j) noun man pw demonstrative pronoun 5.8 there wn 2ae-gem existed perfective of wnn was jnpw proper name Anubis Xw.n-jnpw means He whom Anubis has protected rn noun name .f personal pronoun his sXtj noun peasant pw.n preposition of sXt Wadi Natrun jst particle indicates subordinate clause wn 2ae-gem was Hmt noun wife .f personal pronoun his mrt Meret rn name .s her ************************************************ 20.17 z(j) pw wn.(w), xw.n-jnpw rn.f sxtj pw n sxt-HmAt jst wn Hmt.f mrt rn.s "There was a man, Khuen-Inpu was his name. He wasa peasant of Wadi Natrun. He had a wife, Meret was her name." z(j) pw - A pw sentence "There was a man" wn.(w) - 3MS stative of the verb wnn "exist" "There is a man (that) he exists." In the gloss, Allen says this just means "There was a man." xw.n-jnpw - a name "He whom Anubis has protected" written with honorific transposition. rn.f - noun "name" with 3MS possessive suffix pronoun This is an A B nominal sentence "Khuen-Inpu was his name." sxtj pw - A pw sentence "(He) was a peasant." m sxt HmAt - prepositional phrase "from Wadi Natrun" jst - particle marking a dependant clause (section 16.6.5) QUESTION: wn Hmt.f "His wife existed" perfective? mrt - personal name "Meret" rn.s - noun "name" with 3FS possessive suffix pronoun Another A B nominal sentence "Her name was Meret." Putting it together, "There was a man, named Khuen-Inpu, a peasant of Wadi Natrun. He had a wife, named Meret. ************************************************ 20.17 zj pw wn.(w) xw.n.jnpw rn.f sxtj pw n sxt xmAt jst wn xmt.f mrt rn.s zj pw wn.(w) = there was a man xw.n.jpnw = a name, meaning 'He whom Anubis has protected' (honorific transposition here) rn.f = his name sxtj = peasant, farmer sxt = field xmAt = salt jst = a particle, used to mark a clause as dependent on the preceding clause or sentence wn = to exist xmt.f = his wife mrt = Merit (a personal name) rn.s = her name NOTES: The sentences 'xw.n.jpnw rn.f' and 'mrt rn.s' are AB-type nominal sentences, translated as 'A is B'. SO: (literally) There was a man. His name was 'He, whom Anubis has protected'. A peasant from the Field of Salt (Wadi-Natrun). There existed also his wife. Her name was Merit. that is: There was a man, whose name was 'He, whom Anubis has protected'. He was a peasant from the Field of Salt and he had a wife, named Merit. ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 20.20 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:41:59 -0500 20.20 Complex sentence with 2 balanced/parallel constructions. jw r n z(j) nxm.f sw * r n z(j): noun phrase, 'the mouth of a man' * nxm: verb (3-lit), 'to take away; to save' * nxm.f: verb, '(it) saves' * nxm.f sw: predicate, '(it) saves him' * jw: introductory particle 'r n z(j)' is the subject, and 'nxm.f sw' is the predicate. Note that a redundant suffix pronoun is added to the verb: "The mouth of a man - IT saves him." This is what Allen calls the SUBJECT-imperfective construction. The subject comes BEFORE the finite verb form. (20.7 and 20.8) - - - - - - - - - jw mdw.f dj.f TAm n.f xr * mdw: noun, 'speech, words' * dj: the imperfective form of the verb rdj 'to give, cause' * dj.f: 'it gives', with a redundant suffix pronoun, as above * TAm: verb (3-lit), 'to veil' * TAm xr: 'to veil the face'. Idiom meaning 'lenience, to be lenient' Putting it together, we get a odd-looking word order that I don't remember seeing before, with the prepositional phrase 'to him' inserted between the verb 'TAm' and its object: "His speech - it gives to-veil to him face" "His speech - it gives 'veiling-of-face' to him" "His speech - it gives leniency to him" "His speech - it causes him to be treated with leniency." Both halves of the sentence use the SUBJECT-imperfective construction to describe what is usually / generally true. 20.20 jw r n z(j) nHm.f sw, jw mdw.f dj.f TAm n.f Hr (A) jw r n z(j) nHm.f sw words: jw = introductory particle in adverbial sentences showing it is true temporarily or in specific circumstances r = mouth n zj = of a man nHm = verb 3-lit, `take away/save'; nHm.f = sDm.f form - meaning here possibly imperfective `he/it takes away/saves' sw = he/him/it lit: (the) mouth of a man saves him (B) jw mdw.f dj.f TAm n.f Hr words: jw = as above mdw = `speech'; mdw.f = his speech dj.f > dj = he/it gives n.f = to him TAm = 3-lit `veil'; TAm Hr = veiling of the face > lenience dj.f TAm = subjunctive of rdj + infin = causative = causes veiling of the face/lenience lit: his speech causes veiling of the face/causes lenience to him or: his speech causes his face to be veiled/causes lenience to him as per Allen: his speech makes one lenient to him 20.20 Allen: from the Shipwrecked Sailor Orientation: right to left, horizontal, normal Notes: The sequence N35:N41-G17-D36:I9, nHm.f, is not straightforward. nHm has to be a verb, but it looks like another verb, (r)dj, immediately follows it. The entry for nHm in Allen's vocabulary shows the sequence N35:N41-G17-A24. It needs to show N35:N41-G17-D36 as a variant, if D36 is the correct reading, because the notes for signs D36 and A24 do not show each other as variants. Faulkner also doesn't show the variant spelling. Some context would have helped, too. Without that, it isn't clear why this sentence is saying what it does.. Transliteration: jw r n zj nHm.f jw mdw.f dj.f TAm n.f Hr Translation: "A man's mouth saves him, his speech gives lenience to him." Vocabulary: jw = introductory particle r = noun = "mouth" n = genitive adjective zn = noun = "man" nHm = verb, 3 lit = "take, save" sw = dependent pronoun, 3 sing masc mdw = noun = "word, speech" mdw = verb, 3 lit = "speak" f = suffix pronoun aA = adjective = "big, great" TAm Hr = expression = "lenience", lit: "veiling of the face". TAm is really a verb, 3 lit. mdwj = verb, 4ai = "speak" Grammar: jw = preposed subjects with the imperfective are examples of the subject-imperfective, usually introduced by a particle, usually jw r.n z = indirect genitive r nHm.f = preposed subject + imperfective verb + restated subject mdw.f dj.f = preposed subject + imperfective verb + restated subject TAm n.f Hr = infinitive object of dj n.f = prepositional phrase Hr = object of TAm Gardiner Codes: M17-G43-D21*Z1:N35-O34:A1*Z1-N35:N41-G17-D36:I9-M23-G43-M17-G43-S43- D46-G43-A2-I9-D36:I9-G47-G1-G17-S28-N35:I9-D2-Z1 M17-G43 j-w D21*Z1 r- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms N35 n O34:A1*Z1 complement- Ideogram for zj "man"- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms z- N35:N41-G17-D36:I9 n-Hm-complement-don't know, perhaps a variant for D40, but that is not what our text shows-f M23-G43 s-w M17-G43 j-w S43-D46-G43-A2-I9 mdw-complement-complement- Det. SPEAK-f D36:I9variant for d37, dj-f G47-G1-G17-S28 TA-complement-m- Det CLOTH- N35:I9 n-f D2-Z1 Hr- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms, for example: Hr "face" ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 20.18 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:30:07 -0500 20.18 transliteration: jw wn nDs Ddj rn.f Hms.f m Dd- translation: There is a commoner whose name is Djedi and who dwells in Snefru-Endures The main clause in this sentence is 'jw wn nDs'. This clause begins with the proclitic particle 'jw' and is followed by 'wn', which here is the perfective form of the verb 'wnn'. The perfective of 'wnn' preceded by 'jw' is commonly used to express the general existence of the subject. In this case, that is 'nDs' which means "commoner". Thus, 'jw wn nDs' means "there is a commoner". 'nDs' is modified by two unmarked relative clauses in this sentence. The first such clause is 'Ddj rn.f'. This clause has a nominal predicate which is the name 'Ddj' ("Djedi"). The subject of this clause is 'rn.f'; 'rn' means "name"and the 3MS suffix pronoun 'f' attached to it denotes possession ("his"). This suffix pronoun is also the co-referent in this relative clause, and it refers back to the (undefined) antecedent 'nDs'. If this clause were an independent clause, it would be translated into English as "his name is Djedi"; as a relative clause, we replace the pronoun "his" with the relative pronoun "whose". The other relative clause in this sentence is 'Hms.f m Dd-'. This clause begins with 'Hms' which is the imperfective form of the 4ae-inf. verb 'Hmsj' which means "reside, dwell". The 3MS suffix pronoun 'f' attached to the verb is the subject ("he") of the clause. This suffix pronoun is also the co-referent in this relative clause, and it refers back to the (undefined) antecedent 'nDs'. The imperfective is used here to indicate a fact that is generally/always true, so 'Hms.f' means "he dwells/resides". The action is modified by the prepositional phrase 'm Dd-' (the use of capitals by Allen in transliterating 'snfrw' is to indicate that the glyphs are in a cartouche (sec. 3.7); QUESTION ABOUT MDC NOTATION it's my understanding that < and > are used for this purpose in the manuel de codage system (I would appreciate confirmation/correction/elaboration on this point, particularly on the universality of the convention)). 'Dd-' is a place name that Allen renders as "Snefru-Endures"; 'm' then is best translated "in". From the last two paragraphs, we thus have that 'Hms.f m Dd-' basically means "he dwells in Snefru-Endures". Since this is a relative clause in this sentence, "he" is replaced with the relative pronoun "who" in the translation. *************************************************************** 20.18 read from right to left TRANSLITERATION: (jw wn nDs, Ddj rn.f, Hms.f m Dd-SNFRW) (jw wn) particle plus the perfective of (wnn), not geminated. (20.16.3) = there is/was (nDs) noun = commoner TRANSLATION : There was a commoner, TRANSLITERATION: (Ddj) proper noun = Djedi (rn.f) noun plus 3MS suffix pronoun = his name This is a non-verbal clause. TRANSLATION: his name was Djedi , OR named Djedi, TRANSLITERATION: (Hms.f) noun plus 3MS suffix pronoun = his seat (m) preposition = in (Dd-SNFRW) place name, Snefru Endures (Allen tells us it is a town near Memphis) TRANSLATION: = his seat is near Memphis. Some notes: In Faulkner, (Hmst) = seat, in the sense of rank, position. Going back to Gardiner = sist, sit down, dwell For the translation of the last phrase, Allen says = he resides near Memphis. Rather that changing it to a verb, I am more comfortable translating it = his seat is near Memphis. 20.18 jw wn nDs Ddj rn.f Hms.f m Dd-snfrw jw = particle wnn = verb 2ae-gem = exist jw wn = there is (S20.16.3) nDs = noun = commoner Ddj = Djedi rn.f = his name jw wn nDs Ddj rn.f = there is a commoner, his name is Djedi Hmsj = verb 4ae-inf = sit down, reside Hms = infinitival = to reside, residing = perfective = used to reside = imperfective = was residing/is residing Hms.f = he used to reside/was residing/is residing/resides (the context should make the tense obvious) m = in Dd-snfrw = name of town = Snefru Endures Hms.f m Dd-snfrw = he lives in Snefru-Endures jw wn nDs Ddj rn.f Hms.f m Dd-snfrw = There is a commoner called Djedi, who lives in Snefru-Endures ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 20.21 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:46:23 -0500 20.21 TRANSLITERATION: jw.j rx.kw Dw pf n bAXw nt(j) pt tn rhn s Hr.f jw.j - "I" (jw - enclitic particle, . j - 1MS suffix personal pronoun "I") rx.kw - "I know" (rx -stative form of 2-lit. verb rx "know, learn", .kw - stative suffix 1S (see Lesson 17)) Dw - noun "mountain, hill" pf - "this", demonstrative pronoun n - preposition "of" bAXw - name "Bakhu" nt(j) - masc. singular relative adjective (Lesson 12) pt - noun "sky" tn - "this", demonstrative pronoun rhn.s - "it rests" (rhn - imperfective of 4ae-inf. verb rhn.j "rest", .s - 3FS suffix personal pronoun "it") Hr.f - "upon it" (Hr - preposition "on, upon", .f - 3MS suffix personal pronoun "it") TRANSLATION: "I know the hill of Bakhu, which the sky rests on" 20.21 jw=.j rx=.kw Dw pf n bAXw nt(j) pt tn rhn=.s Hr=.f I know that mountain of Bakhu upon which this sky rests. jw=.j rx.kw = "I know", subject-stative Dw pf = "that mountain" n bAXw = "of Bakhu" ntj = "which", relative clause marker pt tn rhn=.s = "this sky rests", subject-imperfective Hr=.f = "on it" This exercise contains an example of a marked relative clause containing a subject-imperfective construction. The main clause is `jw=.j rx=.kw Dw pf n bAXw'. It starts with a subject-stative, `jw=.j rx=.kw', "I know" (§17.4). The remainder of the clause is the object of this verb, the noun phrase `Dw pf n bAXw', "that mountainof Bakhu". The relative clause starts with the relative adjective `ntj'. Theco-referent pronoun `=.f' referring to `Dw' is the object of the preposition`Hr'; so this is an indirect relative clause. The verb in this clause is in a subject-imperfective construction. The subject is `pt tn', "this sky", and the verb is `rhn=.s', "(it) rests", witha 3fs suffix pronoun agreeing with `pt'. Bringing the preposition in front of the relative clause marker, in accordance with English syntax (see §12.5), gives "on which this sky rests". *********************************___ 20.21 jw.j rx.kw Dw pf n bAXw nt(j) pt tn rhn.s Hr.f jw.j = particle + suffix pronoun rx = verb 2-lit = learn, know jw.j rx.kw = verb + stative suffix 1S = I know Dw = noun = mountain pf = demonstrative pronoun = this, that n = preposition = of bAXw = Dw pf n bAXw = this mountain of Bakhu nt(j) = relative marker (S12.3) = who, which pt = noun = sky tn = demonstrative pronoun = this, that rhnj = verb 4ae-inf = rest, rely rhn.s = imperfective = (it) rests Hr.f = preposition + suffix pronoun = upon it nt(j) pt tn rhn.s Hr.f = this sky which rests upon it jw.j rx.kw Dw pf n bAXw nt(j) pt tn rhn.s Hr.f = I know this mountain of Bakhu, which this sky rests upon ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLENT GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 20.16 Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:18:41 -0500 20.16 read from right to left Allen tells us this is a prophecy about the sun; so a prophecy is to happen in the future TRANSLITERATION: (wbn.f wn wnwt) (wbn.f) verb, 3-lit. plus 3MS suffix pronoun, = it will rise (wn) verb, 3ae-gem., not geminated, = be, exist (wnwt) noun = hour (wn wnwt) together make an adverbial prepositional phrase, and a subordinate clause, therefore I added the word 'when.' TRANSLATION: = It will rise when the hour exists. OR =It will rise when it is time. 20.16 wbn.f wn wnwt "The sun will rise when it is time." wbn.f - subjunctive of the 3-lit. verb wbn "rise, swell" with 3MS suffix pronoun as subject. So far we have "He will rise." wn wnwt - 2ae-gem. verb wn "exist" with noun wnwt "hour" as subject. QUESTION: I guess this is imperfective? "The hour existed." But it could also be subjunctive, I think. It isn't imperfective since that uses the geminated stem. This forms an unmarked adverbial clause: "He will rise (when) the hour existed." or "He will rise (when) the hour exists." The first clause is subjunctive because it's contingent on the condition given in the second. Allen says this is a prophesy about the sun, so "He" is presumably the sun, so I've translated it as "The sun will rise when it is time." 20.16 wbn.f wn wnwt (a prophecy about the sun) words: wbn = rise; wbn.f = subjunctive (given), so he will rise (contingent, possible, desirable) wn = perfective of wnn expressing general expression of existence in a dependent clause, so though/when/because X exists wnwt = hour so: he will rise when the hour exists as per Allen: He will rise when it is time 20.16 Allen: a prophecy about the sun Questions: If Allen hadn't told me this was a prophecy I would have cast the whole thing in past tense. As it is, I have questions. 1) wbn.f certainly can be subjunctive. Is it? Of the two verbs in this sentence, I don't see this one as being the perfective. 2) wn is both the perfective and a subjunctive form of wnn. The perfective usually refers to the past (it doesn't have to, but usually does). This is a prophecy according to Allen, so the past is probably not involved. Gardiner says that wn.f is probably never used in simple affirmative statements with adverbial predicate, but later modifies that statement to say that it appears to carry an implication of past time as in later stages of the language. This is future, unless this is a prophecy about the past (don't laugh, it's happened a lot of times). So if wnwt is taken adverbially then could wn be a subjunctive (see 19.13)? If this is a perfective form we could refer to 20.16.3, which tells us that the perfective wn is tenseless. What is it that causes the decision to come down one way or the other? Either way, we can translate the sentence easily enough. Ain't that amazin'? Transliteration: wbn.f wn wnwt Translation: "He (Re) will rise when the hour exists (at the proper hour)." Vocabulary: wbn = verb, 3 lit = "rise" f = suffix pronoun, 3rd masc sing wn = verb, 2gem = "time" wnwn = noun = "hour", "duty, service" (Dickson) Grammar: wbn.f = Vs paradigm wn wnwt = VS paradigm. wnwt appears to have adverbial meaning which connotation I can't persuade myself that "duty" or "service" have. See questions on the verb forms above. Gardiner Codes: Z7-D58-N35:N5-I9-E34:N35-E34:N35-W24:X1-N14-N5-Z1 Z7-D58-N35:N5-I9 w-b-n- Det SUN, DAY, TIME-f E34:N35 wn-complement E34:N35-W24:X1-N14-N5-Z1 wn-complement-nw-t-Det Det STAR, TIME- Det SUN, DAY, TIME- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms (indicating, I suppose, that this is the word for "hour" and not for "priest", etc. ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 23:34:33 +0100 From: "Mark-Jan Nederhof" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL De Buck Cc: gilbert@noosasteiner.qld.edu.au A late reply to Gilbert's query: For a large portion of De Buck, see my translations at: http://www.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk/~mjn/egyptian/texts/ On 4/13/07, gilbert wrote: > I read some answers to the games (back in 1997) and came across a > message that you were working on De Buck's "Egyptian Reading book" > Being new to reading hieroglyphs, through Glyphdoctor's copurse, I > was wondering if any of the answers of De bucks book are available to > check if my answers are correct? Surely there must be some work done > on it? ==============================================================================