From: "Michael Tilgner" To: "Forum AEL" Subject: Re: AEL Konosso stela - year 8 Thutmose IV Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 22:30:25 +0100 Gérard Passera wrote: > Does someone know where I can find a translation in French > of the Konosso stela - year 8 Thutmose IV (Urk, IV 1545-1548) ? There isn't any French translation of this stela, according to the very detailed bibliography of Andrea Klug, Königliche Stelen in der Zeit von Ahmose bis Amenophis III, Brepols, 2002, p. 529, only English and German ones. Best wishes, Michael Tilgner ============================================================================== From: "A.P.de Visser" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Konosso stela - year 8 Thutmose IV Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:02:00 +0100 Is the Egyptian text of this stela on line obtainable? Regards Bram de Visser ============================================================================== From: "Michael Tilgner" To: "Forum AEL" Subject: Re: AEL Konosso stela - year 8 Thutmose IV Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2007 20:34:24 +0100 Bram de Visser wrote: > Is the Egyptian text of this stela on line obtainable? Yes: -- J. de Morgan, U. Bouriant, G. Legrain, G. Jéquier, A. Barsanti, Catalogue des monuments et inscriptions de l'Egypte antique. Première série, Haute Egypte. Tome premier, de la frontière de Nubie à Kom Ombos, Adolphe Holzhausen, Vienne, 1894, pp. 65-67 http://www.mom.fr/bibnum/Notice.php?id=1080 Best wishes, Michael Tilgner ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 19.4 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:59:00 -0600 19.4 Construction: This is a long conditional sentence of the form 'if A, (then) B'. The subjunctive is used in both parts of the conditional (Allen 19.7) The 'if' part (protasis) is introduced by the particle 'jr'. The negated subjunctive is used in the 'then' part (apodosis). When expressing the future, ME used both the pseudoverbal + r + infinitive and the subjunctive. The pseudoverbal + r + infinitive was used for involuntary actions in the future, and the subjunctive was used for voluntary actions. (Allen 19.5.2) However, the 'nn'-followed-by-the-subjunctive form was used to negate both of these (Allen 19.11). So the basic structure is not too difficult....this sentence is just long with a lot of vocabulary! jr hA.k ..... sqd (if you go ... and sail) is the protasis, and it is followed by 6 things that WON'T happen. Apparently Egyptians did not feel the need to repeat the particle 'jr'. So it's similar to English where we only use one 'if' (If you go and sail.....) hAj: verb, 'to go down, to head' Sj: noun, 'lake' jr hA.k r S(j) n mAat - if you go (down) to the lake of Maat sqdj: causative form of a 3ae-inf, 'to sail' mAaw: noun, 'right wind, proper wind' sqd.k jm.f m mAaw - (if) you sail in it with a right wind - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now come all the things that will NOT happen kfj: verb, 'to strip, unravel' (3ae-inf) nn kf: (subjunctive) 'will not unravel' ndbyt: noun, 'reefs' (of a sail) POSSIBLE ERRATUM IN ALLEN? (I think Professor Allen got his 'b' and 'd' switched around; the vocabulary shows 'ndbyt', not 'nbdyt' as given in his translation.) HtA: noun, 'sail' nn kf ndbyt HtA.k - The reefs of your sail will not unravel jhm: verb, 'to stall' dpwt: noun, 'boat' nn jhm dpwt.k - your boat will not stall jwt: subjunctive form of the verb jwj/jj; 'to come' nn jwt: (subjunctive) will not come jyt: noun, 'wrong', 'misfortune' xt: noun, 'mast' nn jwt jyt m xt.k - misfortune will not come in/to your mast jtj: verb, 'to take possession of' nn jt: (subjunctive) '(it) will not take possession of' nwt: noun, 'wave' tw: dependent pronoun (2ms), 'you' nn jt tw nwt - a wave will not take (possession of) you dp: verb, 'to taste' Dwt: noun, 'evil' jtrw: noun, 'river' nn dp.k Dwt nt jtrw - you will not taste the evil of the river mA: verb, 'to see' Hr: noun, 'face' snD: noun, 'fear' nn mA.k Hr snD - you will not see the face of fear 19.4 Transliteration: jr Ha.k r Sj n mAat sqd.k jm.f m mAaw nn kf ndbyt HtA.k, nn jhm dpwt.k nn jwt jyt m xt, nn jt tw nwt nn dp Dwt nt jtrw nn mA.k Hr snD Translation: If you go down to the lake of Maat and sail in it with a right wind, the reefs of your sail will not unravel, your boat will not stall, misfortune will not come in your mast. a wave will not take you, you will not taste the evil of the river you will not see the face of fear. Row 1 jr = if - subjunctive in condition sentence* Ha = go down - verb 3ae-inf + .k you - 2MS suffix pronoun r = to - preposition Sj = lake - noun n = of - preposition mAat = Maat - noun sqd = sail - subjunctive verb caus. 3ae-inf +.k = you - 2MS suffix pronoun jm.f = in it - preposition (8.2.3) m = with - preposition mAaw = proper wind - noun nn = not - negative particle kf = unravel - verb 3ae-inf ndbyt = reefs (of a sail) - noun HtA = sail - noun + .k = your - 2MS suffix pronoun *Conditional sentences pose a condition under which the action or situation of the main clause is true (19.7) Row 2 nn = not - negative particle jhm = stall - verb 3-lit dpwt = boat - noun +.k = your - 2MS suffix pronoun nn = not - negative particle jwt = come - verb anom jyt = misfortune - noun m = in - preposition xt = mast - masc. noun Row 3 nn = not - negative particle jt = take - verb 3ae-inf tw = you - 2 MS dependent pronoun nwt = wave - noun nn = not - negative particle dp = taste - verb 2-lit + .k = you - 2 MS suffix pronoun Dwt = evil - noun nt = of - indirect genitive jtrw = river - noun nn = not - negative particle mA = see - verb 2ae-gem subjunctive in negation + .k= you -n2 MS suffix pronoun Hr = face - noun snD = fear - verb 3-lit 19.4 TRANSLITERATION: jr Ha.k r Sj n mAat sqd.k jm.f m mAaw nn kf ndbyt HtA.k nn jhm dpwt.k nn jwt jyt m xt.k nn jT tw nwy nn dp.k Dwt nt jtrw nn mAA.k Hr snD TRANSLATION: If you head for the region of Maat, (and if) you cruise in it with a proper wind, the reefs of your sail will not unravel i.e. if your intent is to travel through life in harmony and if you have a good moral compass or backing, you will not falter. Alternatively: If you head for the region of Maat, you will cruise in it with a fair wind, the reefs of your sail will not unravel. i.e. When you conduct yourself according to Maat, you will have clear and untroubled sailing. "Your boat will not be becalmed, wrongs will not come/return in your mast (your mast will not break)" "The waters will not take possession of you, you will not taste the malevolence of the river, you will not see the face (of someone) becoming afraid (or: who has become afraid = the face of fear)." DETAILS: M17-D21:O4-G1-D54:V31A-D21-N37:N23:N35-U2:Aa11-D36:X1*Z5-Y1-S29-Aa28- D46:W24-P1:V31A-M17-G17-I9-G17-U2:Aa11-D36:G43-H2-P5-D35:N35-V31A:I9- S28-N35:D46-D58-M17-M17-X1-S28-V28-X1:U30-G1-P5:V31A D35:N35-M17-O4-G17-D46:Q3-Z7:X1-P1:V31A-D35:N35-D54-G43:X1-M18-M17- M17-X1:G37-Z2-G17-M3:X1*Z1-V31A D35:N35-V15:X1-A24-X1-Z7-N35:U19-W24*Z7:X1-N35:N35:N35-D35:N35- D46:Q3-F20:A2-V31A:N26-G43:X1-G37:Z2-N35:X1-M17-X1:D21-G43-N36- D35:N35-U2:D4-G1-V31A:D2*Z1-G54-A2 ORIENTATION: Horizontal, right to left, normal Line One: M17-D21 j-r O4-G1-D54:V31A h-A- Det MOTION:k D21 r N37:N23 Sj:Det LAND, especially IRRIGATED LAND N35 n U2:Aa11-D36:X1*Z5-Y1 complement:mAa-complement:t- diagonal stroke- Det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS S29-Aa28-D46:W24-P1:V31A s-qd-complement:Var in N33 in words with qd- Det BOAT:k M17-G17-I9 j-m-f G17 m U2:Aa11-D36:G43-H2-P5 complement-mAa-complement-w- Det mAa "correct, true, real"- Det? D35:N35 nn:complement V31A:I9-S28 k-f- Det CLOTH N35:D46-D58-M17-M17-X1-S28 n-d-b-y-t- Det CLOTH V28-X1:U30-G1-P5:V31A H-complement-tA-complement- Ideogr for TAw-k NOTE: I presume P5 is a variant of the sign shown in Allen. jr Ha.k r Sj n mAat sqd.k jm.f m mAaw nn kf ndbyt HtA.k VOCABULARY, line one: jr - "if" Haj - verb, 3ai - "go down to, head for" + r Sj - noun - "district, pool" mAat - noun - "Maat" sqdj - verb, c3ai - "sail, voyage" jm.f m - prepositions - "in it with" mAaw - noun - "proper wind" nn - negative particle kfj - verb, 3ai - "strip, unravel" ndbyt - noun - "reefs (of a sail)" HtA - noun - "sail" k - suffix pronount, 2nd sing. masc. GRAMMAR, line one: jr marks the protasis (the "if' part of an "if . then" statement) Ha.k - subjunctive form with 2nd person sing. masc. subject. This verb probably chosen to accord with the metaphor of sailing, you go down to the water from the land r Sj - prepositional phrase indicating motion toward Sj n mAat - indirect genitive sqd.k - maybe the apodosis, but possibly a second part of the protasis. Either way, subjunctive jm.f - preposition with suffix pronoun for a subject, referring to the region of Maat m - preposition - "with" mAaw - object of m nn kf ndbyt - nn + the subjunctive has future meaning, kf is the subjunctive, ndbyt is the subject of kf. Maybe kf is the second part of the apodosis, but if sqd is part of the protasis, then the apodosis begins here. ndbyt HtA.k - direct genitive, the 2nd sing. masc. suffix indicating ownership If you head for the region of Maat, (and if) you cruise in it with a proper wind, the reefs of your sail will not unravel i.e. if your intent is to travel through life in harmony and if you have a good moral compass or backing, you will not falter. Alternatively: If you head for the region of Maat, you will cruise in it with a fair wind, the reefs of your sail will not unravel. i.e. When you conduct yourself according to Maat, you will have clear and untroubled sailing. Line Two: D35:N35 nn:complement M17-O4-G17 j-h-m D46:Q3-Z7:X1-P1:V31A d-p-w-t- Det BOAT-k D35:N35 nn:complement D54-G43:X1 jw-complement-t M18-M17-M17-X1:G37-Z2 j-y-t- Det SMALL, BAD- Used with words plural in meaning and with false plurals ending in w or wt G17-M3:X1*Z1-V31A m-xt-complement- Used as ideogram of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms-k nn jhm dpwt.k nn jwt jyt m xt.k VOCABULARY line two: jhm - verb, 3lit - "stall" dpwt - noun - "boat" jwj - verb, anom - "come, return" jyt - noun - "wrong" Xt - noun - "stick, wood, mast" m Xt - preposition GRAMMAR line two: More apodosis from line one. Two nn + subjunctive phrases. dpwt.k - subject of jhm, k is a suffix pronoun, 2nd sing masc indicating ownership. jyt - subject of jwt m xt.k - prepositional phrase with the same suffix pronoun indicating the same person TRANSLATION line two: "Your boat will not be becalmed, wrongs will not come/return in your mast (your mast will not break)" Line Three: D35:N35 nn:complement V15:X1-A24 jT-complement- Det. FORCE, EFFORT X1-Z7 t-w N35:U19-W24*Z7:X1-N35:N35:N35 complement-nw-complement-complement-t- Det. water D35:N35 nn:complement D46:Q3-F20:A2-V31A d:p- Det for actions associated with the tongue-k- Det. DRINK-k N26-G43:X1-G37:Z2 Dw-complement-t- Det SMALL, BAD-\ Used with words plural in meaning and with false plurals ending in w or wt N35:X1 n:t M17-X1:D21-G43-N36 j-t-r-w- Det BODY OF WATER D35:N35 nn:complement U2:D4-G1-V31A mA- Det. for actions associated with the eye-complement-k D2-Z1 Hr- Used as ideogr of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms, for example: Hr "face" G54-A2 snD- Det. SPEAK, THINK nn jT tw nwy nn dp.k Dwt nt jtrw nn mAA.k Hr snD VOCABULARY line three: jtj - verb, 3ai - "take possession of" nwy - noun - "waters" dp - verb, 2lit - "taste" Dwt - adj verb 3ai - "evil" jtrw - noun - "river" maA - verb, 2gem - "see" Hr - noun - "face" snD - adj verb 3lit - "become afraid" GRAMMAR: Three straight nn + subjunctive = future clauses: nn jT, nn dp, nn mAA jT tw nwy - VoS pattern dp.k Dwt - VsO pattern Dwt nt jtrw - indirect genitive, nt agreeing with Dwt (fem) maA.k Hr - VsO pattern Hr snD - direct genitive. TRANSLATION line three: "The waters will not take possession of you, you will not taste the malevolence of the river, you will not see the face (of someone) becoming afraid (or: who has become afraid = the face of fear)." ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 19.10 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:14:13 -0600 19.10 saA srjw.k jr.sn hpw.k Grammar: Looks like an imperative followed by the subjunctive: 'Do this, and something else will happen.' or 'Do this, so that something else may happen.' aAj: verb (3ae-inf.) - 'to be big/important' saAj: verb (verb caus. 3ae-inf.) - to MAKE big / important srj: noun, 'official' saAj srjw.k - 'make your officials to be important' (The modern equivalent would be 'empower your officials') jrj: verb (3ae-inf.), 'to do, to make' jr.sn - subjunctive form; 'that they may do' or 'so that they will do' hp: noun, 'law' The most appropriate translation may be a result clause: Empower your officials, so that they may do (enforce?) your laws. 19.10 saA srjw.k jr.sn hpw.k saAj = verb cause. 3ae-inf = make great saA = base stem = imperative = make great srjw.k = noun + suffix pronoun = your officials saA srjw.k = make great your officials jrj = verb 3ae-inf = make, do jr.sn = imperative + suffix pronoun (pl) = they can do hpw.k = noun + suffix pronoun = your laws jr.sn hpw.k = (so that) they can do your laws (S.19.8.1) saA srjw.k jr.sn hpw.k = Make great your officials so that they can do your laws (This could mean that if you appoint competent officials they will do their jobs correctly, or that they will ensure that others obey the law) saA srj(w).k jr.sn hpw.k saAj = (verb caus. 3ae-inf) make great srj = official jrj = (verb 3ae-inf) make, do hp = law, custom SO: You should make your officials great (because) they will make your laws. NOTE: Here there are appears to be a number of possible interpretations. Allen gives 'Make great your officials, so that they may do your laws.' However, it seems to me that the officials would have to makelaws anyway (it is their job after all). Faulkner adds 'make great of rank'. So my interpretation would be that if the officials are happy enough with their status, they will makegood laws and not worry (too much) about their own private ends. QUESTION: That's why I would put 'because' in the translation. Or does 'jr hp' means 'to obey the law'? Ah, the intricacies of an ancient Egyptian mind :) 19.10 NOTE: Allen says this if from the `Instruction for Merikare'. It would have helped to know that the instruction was to teach Merikare how to be a good king. TRANSLITERATION: saA srjw.k jr.sn hpw.k TRANSLATION: "May (or if) you glorify your officials, they will enforce your laws." DETAILS: S29-O29:D36-G1-Y1-A21-Z7-A1:Z2-V31A:D4-S29-N35:Z2-O4-Q3-Z7-Y1:Z2:V31A ORIENTATION: horizontal, right to left, normal S29-O29:D36-G1-Y1 s-aA-complement-complement-Det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS A21-Z7-A1:Z2- V31A srj-w- Determinative MAN- Det in PLURAL-k :D4-S29-N35:Z2 jr-s-n- Det in PLURAL O4-Q3-Z7-Y1:Z2:V31A h-p-w- Det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS- Det in PLURAL-k saA srjw.k jr.sn hpw.k VOCABULARY: saAj - verb, c3ai - "glorify, make great" srj - noun - "official" k - suffix pronoun, 2nd sing masc. jrj - verb, 3ai - "make, do, conduct" sn - suffix pronoun, 3rd plural hp - noun - "laws, customs" GRAMMAR: saA - subjunctive or wish, exhortation or command or a protasis without jr srjw - subject of saA k - suffix pronoun indicating ownership jr - subjunctive of result, possibly in an apodosis sn - subject of jr hp - object of jr k - suffix pronoun indicating ownership TRANSLATION: "May (or if) you glorify your officials, they will enforce your laws." ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 19.6 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:07:46 -0600 19. 6 sanxw m rdj m(w)t.tw Grammatical point illustrated: The verb 'rdj' (give, put, cause) followed by the subjunctive is equivalent to a causative. Literally, if you GIVE or CAUSE that something may happen, you are making it happen. (Allen 19.10) rdj: (verb) to give, put, cause m rdj: This is a negation of an imperative: DO NOT cause! For this construction we have to go back to section 16.4 where Allen states that 'm' followed by the negative complement forms a negative imperative. See Allen 14.17 for the formation of the negatival complement; it is usually the base form followed by -w. The '-w' is often omitted, and Allen specifically mentions that for the verb 'rdj' the negatival complement is simply 'rdj' mwt: verb, 'to die' .tw: special suffix pronoun meaning 'someone' Allen 15.5. mwt.tw: subjunctive form with impersonal pronoun: 'that someone may die' anx: verb 3-lit, 'to live' sanx: causative verb from the above, 'to make to live, to cause to live' sanxw: noun, 'life-giver'. Literally / stiffly: Oh lifegiver, do not make it be that someone should die! 19.6 Transliteration: sanxw m rdj mt.tw sanxw - noun phrase "life-giver" m - used to mark negative imperative (see 16.4) rdj - anomalous verb "give", base stem m rdj - negative imperative "don't make" mwt.tw - verb phrase (mwt - 3-lit. verb "die", form: subjunctive, tw - impersonal subject pronoun, translated as "one") Translation: "Life-giver, don't make one die" 19.6 sanxw m rdj mwt.tw sanxw = noun = life-giver m = negation rdj = anom verb = give, put, cause mwt.tw = verb 3-lit subjunctive form + suffix = one shall die BUT rdj + subjunctive has causative meaning Therefore rdj mwt.tw = make one die AND m + rdj = negation of rdj = don't make sanxw m rdj mwt.tw = life-giver, don't make one die ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:52:17 -0800 (PST) From: Tania Godwin-Evans Subject: Re: AEL Thutmose III year 33 campaign 8 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List i was wondering if anyone could help me. I am lookin for the english translation of the transliteration KdnA. Its from line 3 of the above taken from urk IV 696 No 6 last line of the page. The rest of the line reads spr r w n qdnA m wdyt 8 nwt nt nxt many thanks in anticipation regards tania ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 19.3 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:47:49 -0600 19.3 jn xnd.k Hr Hbsw.j jn - interrogative particle (marks the sentence as question), always used at the beginning of the sentence, not translated, serves as a kind of "question mark" (see 11.11.2) xnd.k - verb phrase (3-lit verb xnd - "step", subjunctive form, k 2MS suffix pronoun "you") Hr - preposition, here with the meaning "on" Hbsw.j - noun phrase "my clothes" (Hbsw -"clothes", plural, j 1S suffix pronoun "I, me, my") "Do you intend to step on my clothes?" ********************************************************************* 19.3 Transliteration: jn xnd.k Hr Hbsw.j Translation: Do you intend to step on my clothes jn = introductory word (normal question - will you.) * xnd = step on - verb 3-lit + .k 2MS suffix pronoun Hr = upon - preposition Hbsw = clothes - noun + .j = my - 1S suffix pronoun *Allen 19.12 - The subjunctive in questions (action of verb questioned). Do you intend to 19.3 (jn xnd.k Hr Hbsw.j) (jn) preposition - usually introduces a question (xnd.k) verb, 3-lit. + 3MS suffix pronoun, subjunctive = you will step [as a question is will read = will you step?] this includes the verb and the subject (Hr) preposition = upon (Hbsw.j) noun + 1MS suffix pronoun = my clothes (Hr Hbsw.j) is a prepositional phrase that serves as the predicate Will you step on my clothes? ************************************************************************ 19.3 jn xnd.k Hr Hbsw.j jn = So (denotes a question) xnd = (verb 3-lit) step on (here, subjunctive) Hr = (prep) upon Hbsw = clothing, clothes SO: So, will you step on my clothes? ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 19.8 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:10:14 -0600 19.8 read right to left jm Sm bA.j, aHa.f n.j My ba should not go; he should wait for me. jm should not Sm verb 3ae-inf go bA noun ba .j personal pronoun my aHa verb 3-lit. wait .f personal pronoun he n preposition 8.2.6 for .j personal pronoun me 19.8 (jm Sm bA.j, aHa.f n.j)Karen (jm) particle - indicates the negative subjunctive (Sm) verb, 3ae.inf.8(smj), = should go (bA.j) noun + 1MS suffix pronoun = my Ba this is the subject Main clause My Ba should not go, circumstantial clause: (aHa.f) verb plus 3MS suffix pronoun, subjunctive = he should wait (n.j) prepostion +1MS suffix pronoun, direct object = for me adding the word 'but' because it is a circumstantial clause - but he should wait for me. 19.8 TRANSLITERATION: jm Sm ba.j aHa.f n.j TRANSLATION: "My Ba should not go, let him wait for me." DETAILS: M17-G17-D35-N40-G17-D54-G29-Z6-A1-P6-D36:D54-I9:N35-A1 ORIENTATION: Horizontal, right to left, normal M17-G17-D35 j-m- Det NEGATION N40-G17-D54 Sm-complement- Det MOTION G29-Z6-A1 bA- Det DIE (referring to the ba's role in the afterlife?"- j P6-D36:D54-I9 aHa-complement- Det MOTION-f N35-A1 n-j jm Sm ba.j aHa.f n.j VOCABULARY: jmj - verb, defective - has negative force Smj - verb,3ai - "go, walk" ba - noun - "Ba" j - suffix pronoun, 1st sing masc aHa - verb, 3lit - "stand, wait" n - preposition GRAMMAR: jm Sm ba - jm.f sDm construction (19.11.2). jm is the subjunctive, Sm is a negatival complement. aHa.f - subjunctive of wish, command or exhortation (19.5.1) with suffix pronoun attached as the subjuct n.j - prepositional phrase, dative of advantage. TRANSLATION: "My Ba should not go, let him wait for me." ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 19.5 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 15:03:31 -0600 19.5 wAH jb.k, rx.k mAat Structure: this sentence illustrates the use of the subjunctive to 'continue' an imperative. (Allen 19.8.3) There are several different translations possible, depending on the context: do A (and B), do A (and B will happen), do A (so that B will happen). wAH: verb (3-lit), 'set, place'; 'remain, last' Imperative form. wAH jb.k: idiom meaning 'be patient'. Literally, 'rest (your) heart' rx: verb (2-lit), 'to know,learn' rx.k: subjunctive, 2ms - that you may know (one possible translation. In any case, the 'knowing' is contingent on the 'being patient') rx.k mAat: and you may know Maat / that you may know Maat 19.5 wAH jb.k rx.k mAat wAH jb.k = you, be patient rx = verb 2-lit = know, learn rx.k = subjunctive + suffix pronoun = in order that you may learn (S.19.8.2) mAat = Maat wAH jb.k rx.k mAat = Be patient in order that you may learn Maat 19.5 wAH jb.k rx.k mAat wAH - 3-lit. verb "be lasting, still" jb.k - noun "heart" with posessive 2MS suffix pronoun rx.k - 2-lit. verb "learn" with 2MS suffix pronoun as subject mAat - noun "Maat" This is two phrases, with the verbs both in the subjunctive. 'wAH jb.k' expresses a hope or a wish that "your heart be lasting". Allen's dictionary says 'wAH jb' is an idiom for "be patient". The second phrase 'rx.k mAat' expresses a hope or a wish that "you learn mAat". Putting them together, we have "You should be patient (that) you will learn Maat." 19.5 TRANSLITERATION: wAH jb.k rx.k mAat or wAH ib.k rx.k mAat TRANSLATION: "Be patient and you will know Maat." or "If you are patient you will know Maat". Little to choose from there. DETAILS: V4-G1-V29-V28-Y1-F34*Z1:V31A-D21:Aa1-Y1:V31A-U2:Aa11-D36:X1*Z5-Y1 ORIENTATION: Horizontal, right to left, normal V4-G1-V29-V28-Y1 complement-complement-wAH-complement- Det WRITING F34*Z1:V31A Ideogr for jb "heart"- Used as ideogram of signs meant to be read as ideograms rather than phonograms-k D21:Aa1-Y1:V31A r-x- Det WRITING-k U2:Aa11-D36:X1*Z5-Y1 complement-mAa-complement-t- Replacement for complex or dangerous signs-Det ABSTRACT, CONCEPTS wAH jb.k rx.k mAat or wAH ib.k rx.k mAat VOCABULARY: wAH - verb, 3lit - "set, place, add, step, remain, last" ib - noun - "heart" wAH ib - "be patient" k - suffix pronoun, 2nd sing masc rx - verb, 2lit - "know, understand" mAat - noun - "maat" GRAMMAR: wAH - subjunctive of wish, command, or exhortation (19.5.1), it could just as well be a protasis without jr (19.7). jb.k or jb.k, object of wAH with suffix pronoun attached. rx.k - subjunctive expressing the future (19.5.2), more likely result (19.8.2) as an apodosis. Suffix pronoun attached as a subject. mAat - object of rx TRANSLATION: "Be patient and you will know Maat." or "If you are patient you will know Maat". Little to choose from there. ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY COLLATION 19.2 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 14:43:04 -0600 19.2 read right to left HA n.j Szp nb mnx, awAy.j Hnw n sxtj pn jm.f n.j zp mn, wy.j nw n stj pn jm.f I wish I had any effective image of a god, so that I might steal the goods of this peasant from him. HA n.j Szp nb mnx This first clause has normal work order reversed because the dative n.j are second because the particle HA must be first. awAy noun might steal .j personal pronoun I Hnw noun properties, goods n prepositional nisbe 4.13.2 of sxtj noun peasant pn demmonstrative pronoun 5.8 this jm prepositional adverb from .f personal pronoun him 19.2 HA n.j Szp nb mnx awAy.j Hnw n sxtj pn jm.f HA = particle = would that, if only (S16.6.12) marks sentence as a wish when there is some uncertainty about whether wish will come true n.j = preposition + suffix pronoun = for me Szp = noun = image (of a god) nb = adjective = any mnx = adjective-verb 3-lit = functional, worthwhile, beneficent HA n.j Szp nb mnx = Would that for me there were any worthwhile image = of a god (S8.10.7, last paragraph) = I wish I had any worthwhile image of a god awAj = verb 4ae-inf = rob, steal awAy.j = subjunctive + suffix pronoun = I could steal Hnw = noun = property n = preposition = of sxtj = noun = peasant (M20 = ideogram) pn = demonstrative pronoun = this jm.f = prepositional adverb(?) + suffix pronoun = from him awAy.j Hnw n sxtj pn jm.f = I could steal the property of this peasant from him HA n.j Szp nb mnx awAy.j Hnw n sxtj pn jm.f = I wish I had any worthwhile image of a god, (so that) I could steal the property of this peasant from him 19.2 xA n.j Szp nb mnx, awAy.j Hnw n sxtj pn jm.f "I wish I had any effective image of a god, so that I might steal the goods of this peasant from him." I found this one hard to understand even with the proper translation. Missing context, I guess. xA - proclitic particle expressing a wish (section 16.6.12) n.j - dative phrase 'to me' Szp - noun "image of a god" nb - adjective "any" mnx - adjective-verb 3-lit. "effective" This part is an adverbial sentence of posession. (it's actually an example in section 10.7) The dative 'n.j' is predicate here, but the normal word order for such sentences is reversed because of the rule that a dative tries to come near the front. Literally we have the clause, "Wish: any effective image of a god of me." Meaning "I wish any effective image of a god belonged to me." This is the main clause of the sentence. awAy.j - 4-lit. verb "rob, steal", subjunctive with 1S suffix pronoun as subject. apparently the A24 det. trumps the 'y' in distinguishing between the noun and verb according to the dictionary. Hnw - noun "property", object of the verb n - preposition "of" sxtj - noun "peasant' pn - demonstrative "this/that" jm.f - adverbial prepositional phrase "from him" This is an unmarked dependent clause, "(that) I would/could/will steal the property of this peasant from him." This is normal VsO word order, with the object modified by the prepositional phrase 'n sxtj pn' And the whole predicate modified adverbially by 'jm.f'. Putting the the two clauses together, we get something like "I wish I had any effective image of a/the god so that I could steal the property of this peasant from him." The subjunctive is often hard to translate directly into English. ============================================================================== From: "Michael Tilgner" To: "Forum AEL" Subject: Re: AEL Thutmose III year 33 campaign 8 Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 21:35:54 +0100 Tania Godwin-Evans wrote: > I am lookin for the english translation of the transliteration KdnA Qdn = Qatna (today: Tell el-Meshrife, North-East of Homs; syllabic writing) (Hannig, Großes Handwörterbuch Ägyptisch-Deutsch, p. 1393; see also LÄ V, 46-47, s.v. "Qatna") Best wishes, Michael Tilgner ============================================================================== From: "Jim" To: "'Ancient Egyptian Language List'" Subject: RE: AEL Thutmose III year 33 campaign 8 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 08:26:46 -0000 Redford (Redford D. B. (2003). The Wars in Syria and Palestine of Thutmose III: Culture and History of the Ancient Near East, vol. 16. Halpern B., Weippert, M. H. E.; Van Den Hout, Th. P. J.; Winter, I. (Eds.). Leiden: Brill) says that Sethe restored this text to Qatna (a town) without justification. It is a lacuna in the text. If you want to accept Sethe's restoration of the text, it is , indeed, Qatna. Jim Ashton. ============================================================================== From: "Marianne Luban" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Subject: Re: AEL Thutmose III year 33 campaign 8 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:52:47 -0800 >I am lookin for the english translation of the transliteration KdnA. Its >from line 3 of the above taken from urk IV 696 No 6 last line of the page. > The rest of the line reads > >spr r w n qdnA m wdyt 8 nwt nt nxt > "Reaching the district of Qatna on the eigth victorious campaign" ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: , "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL PLEASE CHECK FOR YOUR NAME ALLEN 2007 STUDY SECTION Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:34:52 -0500 Hey Gang, This is my final list for the New Allen 2007 Study section. If you have contacted me about being part of the study group, please check for your name below and if it's not there, contact me. I will send a second email with the list of hmwk volunteers. Not everyone on this list will also be on the second list. Check to see that you are where you want to be. best, Karen the moderator GlyphStudy/Allen Study Group ******************************** NEW STUDY GROUP 2007 Jim Ashton Autumn Baccillia Jan Bailey Kyle Barger Mauricio Blanco Carlos Borrico Diana Brown Andie Byrnes William Calton Kate (Katie) Chambers Geoff Conwill Susan Corcoran Raleigh D'Adamo John Davidson Jennie Davis Sharron Day Joel Derfner Lloyd Dickie Kate Evans George Fowler Rene Gankema Andy Gardiner Kim Ghobrial Tania Godwin-Evans Thomas Griffin Harry Hamilton Jackie Harris Rob Hoey Bob Hollenbeck Donna Hurley John Hyaduck Mike Jolly Constance Johnson Matthew Jones Frater Kheti Martin Knoblauch Jim Kuikman Andre Louw George McDowell Bushawn McMillan-el Celeste McNairn Sean McSween Meryat Johan Meskins Royce Miller Michele Moglia Khaled mohei el din N'fra Elizabeth Nicolson Heather O'Malley Rob Persson Sandra Rosendahl Rachel Rosenthal Keath Rycroft Serena Salme Tweendeni Shikomba Jon Smyth Mark Stott Michael Towns Shelley Wardell Ken Watts Dany Webster James Winston Dan Wood Audra Yerger Philip Zaleski Lauraine Van Zyl Smit Paula Veiga Lucas Venter ==============================================================================