From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL SCARAB TRANSLATION 2.4 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:34:25 -0600 2.4 transliteration: Hmt pw nt nswt nxt translation: She is the wife of the victorious king This is an A pw nominal sentence. "A" in this case is the noun phrase 'mwt pw nt nswt nxt'. This involves the noun 'mwt' ("mother") followed by the indirect genitive 'nt nswt nxt'. 'nt' is the genitival adjective; it agrees in gender (feminine) and number (singular) with 'mwt'. 'nswt' ("king") is modified by the adjective 'nxt' ("victorious"); note that both of these are masculine in spite of the 't' at the end of each. The 'pw' in an A pw sentence stands as close to the beginning of the sentence as possible. As this sentence demonstrates, the 'pw' in an A pw sentence precedes an indirect genitive in A. 2.4 Hmt pw nt nsw nxt She is the wife of the mighty king 2.4 Hm.t pw n.t nsw.t nx.t This is the wife of a victorious king This is an A pw B nominal sentence, the subject is Hm.t pw - this wife and the predicate - nsw.t nx.t - a victorious king n.t is the feminine indirect genitive "of" 2.4 Hmt pw nt nswt nxt she is the wife of a victorious king This is an A pw nominal sentence where A is 'Hmt nt nswt nxt'. The pronoun'pw' stands as close to the beginning of the sentence as possible, sometimes, as here, within A (=A77.9). Since the predicate, 'Hmt ...', is a female person, "she" is the appropriate translation of 'pw'. 2.4. Hmt pw nt nsw.tn nxt She is the wife of your victorious king 2.4 Hmt pw nt nswt n n nxt Hmt = wife Hmt pw = she is the wife (A pw - S7.9) nt = of (direct genitive, possessor noun is the second noun S4.13.1) nswt = king n = of nxt = strength Hmt pw nt nswt n n nxt = she is the wife of a strong king 2.4 MdC: N42:X1 - B1 p-w n:t M23 t:n N35:M3:J1:D40 Transliteration: Hmt pw nt nsw nxt Translation: She is the wife of the victorious King 1.Hmt = `wife' - noun 2.pw = `She is' an Apw sentence 3.nt= `of' - fem. genitival adjective agreeing with Hmt (fem. gender). 4.nsw = `king, King of Upper Egypt' - Proper noun 5.nxt = `victorious' - adjective (Faulk. 139) An Apw nominal sentence (Allen 7.9) 2.4 Transliteration: Hmt pw nt nswt nxt Translation: She is the wife of the victorious King Hmt = wife - noun pw = She is (the wife) In an Apw sentence the pw is neutral nt= of - genitival adjective used when A is feminine. nswt = king - noun nxt = victorious - adjective-verb 3-lit. An Apw nominal sentence (Allen 7.9) 2.4 Transliteration: Hmt pw nt nswt nxt Dissection: 1) Hmt = "(the) wife" 2) pw = A pw sentence, with pw standing as close to the beginning of the sentence as possible. 3) nt = genitival adjective used when A (A nt B) is feminine (in this case, Hmt). The pw comes between the A (Hmt) and the rest of the genitive phrase. 4) nswt = "the king" (with an extra t written) 5) nxt = "successful, victorious" (adj.-verb 3lit.) Translation: She is the wife of the victorious king. 2.4 Hmt pw nt nswt nxt Hmt - wife pw - is nt - of nswt - king A pw sentence, where A is a noun phrase Hmt nt nswt, which can be separated. nxt - strong, victorious. SO: She is a wife of a strong king ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL SCARAB TRANSLATION 2.5 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:43:49 -0600 2.5 transliteration: tAS.f rsj r kA-r-y translation: His southern boundary is at Karoy This is an adverbial sentence. In such sentences, the subject precedes the predicate. Here the subject is 'tAS.f rsj'. 'tAS' ("boundary") has the 3MS suffix pronoun attached to indicate possession ('his'). 'tAS' is modified by 'rsj' ("southern"). The predicate in this sentence is the prepositional phrase 'r kA-r-y'. 'kA-r-y' is the name of a place (Karoy). The preposition 'r' here has the meaning of "at" a place. 2.5 Hmt pw nt nsw nxt She is the wife of the mighty king 2.5 tAS.f rsy r kA-r-y His southern boundary is at Karoy tAS.f - his boundary rsy - southern r - at kAry - the town of Karoy in Nubia 2.5 tAS.f rsj r kA-r-y whose southern boundary is at Karoy An adverbial sentence with subject 'tAS.f rsj', "his southern boundary", and predicate 'r kA-r-y', "at Karoy". As in the case of line 2, this could be an independent sentence, but translates well as an unmarked relative clause with 'nswt nxt' as antecedent and '.f' as coreferent. Allen discusses the Egyptian writing of foreign names in Essay 17. *****************************************************************8 2.5 MdC: X1*U30: N37 - Z9*N21:f M24 - Z4 *N21:r 1 kA 1 -r- i i T14 N25 Transliteration: tAS.f rsy r kA-r-y Translation: His southern boundary (is) to Karoy tAS.f = `His boundary'- noun + personal suffix pronoun 3MS (Faulk. p.294) rsy = ` Southern' - adjective (Faulk p.153) r= "to' - preposition kA-r-y = Karoy - proper noun 2.5 tAS.f rsy r kAry tAS.f = his border rsy = southern r = to kAry = Karoy tAS.f rsy r kAry = his southern border (extends) to Karoy 2.5 Transliteration: tAS.f rsy r kA-r-y Translation: His southern boundary (is) to Karoy tAS = border/boundary - noun + .f = his - personal suffix pronoun 3MS rsy = Southern - adjective r= to - preposition kA-r-y = Karoy - proper noun 2.5 tAS=f rsy r kA-r-y tAS - boundary =f - 3MS suffix pronoun rsy - (adj) southern r - (prep) to, from, with respect to Ka-r-y - Karoy (geographic location) SO: His (king's) southern boundary is Karoy Question: am I correct in assuming that Karoy was a Egyptian border town in this case? Or does it mean that the boundary was with Karoy, so that Karoy is on the other side, so to speak? The exact meaning of the preposition 'r' here is a bit unclear. Also, do the names of these two places (see also the next line) have any special meaning? Forexample, it seems that kA-r can actually be translated as 'food for the mouth'? 2.5 Transliteration: tAS.f rswj r kAry Dissection: 1) tAS = "boundary" 2) .f = 3rd sing. masc. suffix pronoun, "his" 3) rswj = nisbe of rsw "south," "southern" 4) r = preposition, "to" 5) kAry = place name in Nubia, "Karoy." Karoy was also known as Napata, which is just downstream from the 4th Cataract of the Nile. Translation: His southern boundary is to Karoy. Paraphrase: His southern boundary extends to Karoy. ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL SCARAB TRANSLATION 2.6 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:53:00 -0600 2.6 transliteration: mHtj.f r n-hA-ry-nA translation: His northern one is at Naharin This sentence mirrors the one in the previous (fifth) line. Again, this is an adverbial sentence. The subject is the phrase 'mHtj.f' which consists of the nisbe 'mHtj' ("northern (one)") being used substantively followed by the 3MS suffix pronoun 'f' denoting possession ("his"). From context (line 5), the "one" being referred to is "boundary". The predicate in this sentence is the prepositional phrase 'r n-hA-ry-nA'. The object of the preposition, 'n-hA-ry-nA', is the name of a place (Naharin). The preposition 'r' here has the meaning of "at" a place. 2.6 mHty .f r nhArynA his northern at Naharin 2.6 mHty.f r n-hA-ry-na his northern at Naharin mHty.f - his northern r - at n-hA-ry-na - Naharin, an area of land that used to occupy the area in northern Syria that lays between Turkey and Iraq. Also known as the Mitanni empire. 2.6 mHtj.f r n-hA-rj-nA and whose northern one is at Naharin. This is another adverbial sentence. The subject is 'mHAj.f', "his northern one" and the predicated 'r n-hA-rj-nA', "at Naharin". 'mHtj.f', which is an adjective used as a noun, is understood from the context to refer to 'tAS'. So this line is the second part of a compound sentence and continues the relative clause. The writing of Naharin here follows the New Kingdom system of using CVsyllables. The dictionary entry in Faulkner, for example, writes the name in he Middle Kingdom - primarily alphabetic - system as 'Nhrn'. (See Essay 17.) 2.6 mHty.f r nhAryn mHty.f = his northern r = to nhAryn = Naharin mHty.f r nhAryn = his northern (border) to Naharin 2.6 Transliteration: mHty.f r n-hA-ry-nA Translation: His northern to Naharin mHty = northern - adjective + .f = his - personal suffix pronoun 3MS r = to - preposition n-hA-ry-nA - Naharin - proper noun ************************************ 2.6 mHty=f r n-hA-ry-nA mHty - (adj) nothern =f - 3MS suffix pronoun r - (prep) to, from, with respect to n-hA-ry-nA - Naharin (geographic location) SO: His nothern [one] is Naharin 2.6 Transliteration: mHtj.f r nhArjnA Dissection: 1) mHtj = nisbe, "northern" 2) .f = 3rd singular masc. suffix pronoun, "his" 3) r = preposition, "to" 4) nhArjnA = place name, "Naharin" or "Neharina" (in today's Syria) Translation: His northern (boundary) to Naharin. Paraphrased translation of complete scarab: "The great wife of the king is Tiy, may she live eternally. The name of her father is Yuia, and the name of her mother is Tjuia. She is the wife of the victorious king, whose southern boundary extends to Karoy and whose northern boundary is Naharin." ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL STARTING NEW SECTION ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY GROUP ( : SIGN UP Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:24:58 -0600 m Htp all, The Allen Study group is staring another section--so those who came in late or are just now beginning will be able to start from the beginning of the book and participate with a new batch of students working on your level. This should be fun, since it will mean more people will be able to participate actively with the group, instead of just saving collations till they get to the relevant lessons on their own. This is an active group, we have an assignment due every week, but the group pace is such that anyone who is motivated can keep up even with a job and/ or kids in the mix ( : Here is how it works 1. Buy a copy of James P. Allen's Middle Egyptian: An Introduction to the Language and Culture of Hieroglyphs, since this is the book we are using as a textbook. You will need the book to participate in the study group, because that's what we do--go over the material and do the lessons together as a study group. 2. Send me a first and a last name (I ask this of everyone as a prerequisite to make sure folks are serious, and I also need some way of keeping track of over 200 people --you may always elect to use only your first name for list correspondence. 3. I will then send you an invitation to join GlyphStudy--assuming you are not a member already ( : this is the list where we do all the basic level chit chat about studying, and resources and homework procedures--please accept the invitation. 4. Volunteer as a Homework Volunteer--this is essential to our success as study group. The new Allen study section will be posting its own set of collations to supplement those we already have. These are the collations you have been seeing every week on AEL, and they will provide a resource for both lists and for students who come along in the future. I am collecting Homework volunteer names now and we would really like to get as many people as we can to sign up to help us out. The more people signing on, the fewer problems each individual person does during a given week ( : We tend to send out 4-5 copies of every problem --which seems to give a good representation of our collective understanding of the material. Come on, be brave, you know you will be more likely to do your homework and keep up with the list studies if you are actively participating and you know that the group is counting on your contribution ( : If you have been wanting to get started on your studies, or got left behind for any reason the last time --now is your chance to jump in and make the new section a success. Send me your names, and email addresses. Let me know if you can volunteer---it's really the best way. When I send you an invitation to GlyphStudy--please accept Get your textbook and begin reading--we are going to start our preliminary work ASAP. The first steps include signing up people for the Allen study Group and Glyph Study Making a list of Volunteers and then learning the so-called Egyptian alphabet-- which we do in the first few weeks of study--and which can be done while you are waiting for your text to arrive. hope to see many new folks in the new year along with some old study friends who have been out of touch ( : Check in everyone, Those who signed on for the first group and who became inactive--for whatever reason--check in and let us know how you have been doing and if you want to start over with the new group. best, Karen ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:02:42 -0800 (PST) From: E M Subject: Re: AEL SCARAB TRANSLATION 2.2 and 2.3 Question To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Dear Karen, As I remember, the genetive adjective 'n' should agree with the _preceding_ word. Since the word 'rn' is mascular, the genetive is formed with 'n' no matter what comes after. Hope, I got that right Elena ----- Original Message ---- These two lines confused me. When I frist looked at them, I translated them as 'her father's name is Yuya' and 'her mother's name is Tuya.' But them I read them again and wondered if they couldn't be: (rnn) = rejoices. This would be that each parent rejoices. Is this possible? I noticed that according to Faulkner, if it was 'the name of'' - in the case of her mother, it should be (nt) and not just the lone (n). Just wondering? Karen ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:38:01 +1100 (EST) From: Carlos Moreira Subject: AEL query - We are all brothers To: Ancient Egyptian Language mailing list Dear AEL'ers can you help me with the best way to render the phrase "we are all brothers" ?? Should I use something like this: iw wnn.n snw nb thanks for any tip. regards Carlos ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:25:47 -0800 From: To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL query - We are all brothers Cc: Carlos Moreira ---- Carlos Moreira wrote: > > > Dear AEL'ers > > can you help me with the best way to render the phrase "we are all > brothers" ?? > > Should I use something like this: > > iw wnn.n snw nb > > > thanks for any tip. > > regards > Carlos Dear Carlos: You might have to clarify what you mean first. Do you wish to express that idea that all of mankind, (or at least "all" of the members of a particular group) are equivalent to "brothers", but not necessarily related by blood? If so, you might want "iw.n nb m snw" (see Allen's "Middle Egyptian", page 112-113). I am not 100% certain whether "nb" can be used to modify a pronoun, however. It is not typically used in that way. However, I think that if you write iw wnn.n snw nb, "snw nb", this might be interpreted as "all" (as opposed to some) brothers; in other words, you would be saying that "we" comprise the entire group labeled "brothers", which, presumably, is not what you mean to express. So, "snw nb" is probably not what you want. Finally, If you want to say that we are all LITERALLY brothers, related by blood, you might want "jnn nb snw". Good luck. John Corridan ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:46:23 +0100 From: ROSMORDUC Serge To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Cc: Carlos Moreira Subject: Re: AEL query - We are all brothers jcorridan@charter.net a écrit : > > ---- Carlos Moreira wrote: > >> Dear AEL'ers >> >> can you help me with the best way to render the phrase "we are all >> brothers" ?? >> >> >> > Dear Carlos: > > ... > Finally, If you want to say that we are all LITERALLY brothers, related by blood, you might want "jnn nb snw". Good luck. > In this context, "all" would probably not be rendered as "nb", but as "r-Dr=n", "r-Aw=n" or some other adverbial complement with the same meaning. Best regards, S. Rosmorduc ==============================================================================