From: "Nick Mills" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: RE: AEL SCARAB COLLATION 3.1 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2007 22:59:27 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk > [mailto:owner-AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk]On Behalf Of KMOTC > Sent: 29 December 2006 07:25 > To: Ancient Egyptian Language List > Subject: AEL SCARAB COLLATION 3.1 > > > QUESTION: > > This clause starts with 'jn.n', > > which might well be the relative perfect (ch. 24) rather than the > perfect. > > then again, it might not; it's not quite clear to me which it is. > > On the one hand, the relative perfect should > > agree in gender with the noun it modifies. > > The primary noun in the direct genitive is 'rxt' > which *looks* feminine; if it is feminine, > The Wörterbuch entry has "rxt (als masc.)". ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL SCARAB TRANSLATION 3.2 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 00:47:48 -0600 3.2 Transliteration: SAa m rnpt 1 nfryt rnpt 10 Dissection: 1) SAa = "beginning" 2) m = preposition "in" 3) rnpt = "year" 4) 1 (numeral) 5) nfryt = "ending" 6) 10 (numeral) 2) Translation: Literal: "Beginning in year 1, ending in Year 10" 3.2 SAa Hat-sp nfryt r Hat-sp mDw beginning from the bottom (ie first or zero) regnal year to regnal year ten 3.2 MdC: M8:a-m-rnp-t:zp-1-nfr-i-i-t:r-rnp-t:zp-10 Transliteration: sAa m Hsbt 1 nfryt r Hsbt 10 sAa m: Beginning from Hsbt 1: Regnal year 1 nfryt r: Down to Hsbt 10: Regnal year 10 Translation: Beginning from regnal year 1 down to regnal year 10 3.2 SAa m HAt-sp 1 nfryt r HAt-sp 10 beginning from regnal year 1 down to regnal year 10 SAa m = beginning from HAt-sp 1 = regnal year one nfryt r = down to HAt-sp 10 = regnal year ten For "SAa m" and "nfryt r" see Allen 8:16 Question: I'm not sure of "down to" though as the year count goes up nfryt can also mean end and r can also mean until so maybe it could read beginning from regnal year 1 until the end of regnal year 10 3.2 SAa m Hsbt 1, nfryt r Hsbt 10 Beginning in regnal year 1, ending in regnal year 10 SA beginning m preposition in Hsbt regnal year 1 HAt ending Hsbt regnal year 10 3.2 SAa - noun = beginning m - preposition is this the 'm' of predication? = of hAt - noun = Regnal year nfryt =own to, end, bottom hAt = Regnal year 10 = 10 = the beginning of his reign to the end of the 10th year of his reign **************************************************************8 3.2 Transliteration: SAa m HAt-sp 1 nfryt r HAt-sp 10 Translation: Beginning from regnal year one down to regnal year 10. Unmarked adverb clause (Allen 12.17) SAa m = beginning from (Faulkner pg 261) - compound preposition HAt-sp = Regnal year 1 = number nfryt r = down to (Faulkner pg 132) - compound preposition HAt-sp = Regnal year 10 - number 3.2 sAa m Hsbt 1 nfryt r Hsbt 10 sAa = noun = beginning m = preposition = in Hsbt 1 = regnal year 1 nfryt r = down to (Allen 8.16 - adverb modifying a preposition) Hsbt 10 = regnal year 10 sAa m Hsbt 1 nfryt r Hsbt 10 = beginning in regnal year 1 down to regnal year 10 ******************************************************************* 3.2 SAa m Hsbt 1 nfryt r Hsbt 10 beginning from regnal year one down to regnal year 10, An adverbial clause further qualifying the previous line. 'SAa m' and 'nfryt r' are compound prepositions (§8.3.3). On the transliteration of the word for regnal year see Allen §9.9.3 ********************************************************************** 3.2 SAa m Hsbt 1 nfryt r Hsbt 10 SAa = to begin, originate; SAa m = staring with Hsbt = regnal year nfryt = end, bottom nfryt r = down to beginning with the first regnal year and down to the tenth regnal year**** ************************************************************** 3.2 transliteration: SAa m Hsbt 1 nfryt r Hsbt 10 translation: beginning in regnal year 1 and ending at regnal year 10 Here we have a couple of prepositional phrases. The first is 'SAa m Hsbt 1'. This begins with the compound preposition 'SAa m' which consists of the noun 'SAa' ("beginning") followed by the preposition 'm'. The object of the preposition is 'Hsbt 1', "regnal year 1". The second prepositional phrase is 'nfryt r Hsbt 10'. This starts with the compound preposition 'nfryt r' which consists of the noun 'nfryt' ("end, bottom") followed by the preposition 'r'. The object of the preposition is 'Hsbt 10', "regnal year 10". 3.2 SAa-m HAt-sp 1 nfryt-r HAt-sp 10 beginning from regnal year 1 up to regnal year 10 SAa-m = beginning from HAt-sp 1 = regnal year one nfryt-r = up to HAt-sp 10 = regnal year ten 3.2 SAa m HAt-sp 1 nfryt r HAt-sp 10 beginning from regnal year 1 down to year 10, Line. 2 For the transliteration of the pharaoh's 'regnal year', I stick with Gardiner and his [HAt-sp] ~ 'a counting from the first time'. The group F4 [forepart of lion] together with O50 [sp] have occasionally been used as an alternative to the group writing which used to be transliterated as [rnpt-sp] in rendering dates, and both the reading and the connection seem strong. Allen's reading of [Hsbt], presumably from [Hsb] 'counting/reckoning', shows not even an echo of the O50 [sp] 'time', and suggests to me only a possible connection with the ancient cattle count of the old kingdom, which had ceased long before the reign of Amenhotep III. (Excursus C. Gardiner: page 203). 3.2 SAa m HAT-sp 1 nfryt r HAt-sp 10 [beginning] from year 1 down to year 10 ============================================================================== From: "KMOTC" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL SCARAB TRANSLATION 3.3 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 03:05:23 -0600 3.3 maj(w)-HsA(w) St snw 102 fierce lions QUESTION: Note: the plural ending is not written out, probably because it is understood because of the number that follows. Or is it maybe because there was no more room on the scarab to write it out (?) ************************************************************************ 3.3 mAj-HsA 102 102 fierce lions. This line enumerates the number of lions referred to in the first two lines. The first two lines should probably be read as a heading and the third line as the first, and only, list item (cf. Ex. 9.1). The cowskin F27, which is a determinative for mammal and is used in some writings of the word for lion, occurs at the end of 'mAj-HzA', which is therefore treated as a compound word and hyphenated in transliteration. According to the Worterbuch, II, 12, 'mAj-HzA' or 'mAj-HsA' is also used as an epithet of kings and gods, and is the name of the lion-god Mahes. ********************************************* 3.3 mA(i).w-HsA 102 102 fierce lions mA(i)-HsA - fierce lion, presumably, as there are no plural stokes but 102 , mA(i) would be mA(i).w I don't think that (F27) is the determinative for hide / skin as Faulkner gives a spelling of "fierce lion" with the F27 glyph. obviously as Pharaoh he didn't kill any old lion, he only killed fierce lions. In summary: The number of lions brought (back) by his majesty, which he himself shot from year 1 until the end of year 10 is 102 fierce lions. 3.3 transliteration: mA-HsA 102 translation: twelve fierce lions The last line is a noun phrase completing the sentence on scarab 3 (I would end the translation of the first two lines with a colon) by expressing the actual number of lions that the king obtained through his own shooting. The phrase consists of a noun followed by numerals. 'mA-HsA' is evidently a compound noun. 'mA' means "lion" and is here written ideographically with the E22 lion sign. 'mA' is followed by 'HsA'. I couldn't find a relevant entry for 'HsA' in Faulkner or the word lists in Allen and Gardner. Since the vocabulary in the PDF file gives 'mA-HsA' as "fierce lion", one can conclude that 'HsA' means fierce (Faulkner does contain an explicit entry for 'mA-HsA', but he renders this simply as "lion"). The numerals that follow 'mA-HsA' are the V1 coil of rope which indicates 100 and two Z1 strokes, each indicating 1. This gives a total of 102. Note that 'mA-HsA' is singular, but it is not uncommon in a noun plus cardinal number combination for the noun to be in the singular (as can be inferred from the last sentence of the third paragraph of sec 9.4). 3.3 rw sA 102 or rw sA St sn(wy) grammar rw determinative (H - variation of sA (Gardiner in intro to letters H x ) sA same as H (back) enclosed within hieroglyphs sA determinative for skin, hide, pelt or lion - duplication on determinative indicating plurality Suggest pelt as this is the full back of animal plus side and underside 3.3 HsA-mA 102 HsA-mA 102 = 102 wild lions F27 = determinative for hide, mammal NB I understand that a 'wild lion' is a specific species of lion 3.3 Transliteration: mA-HsA St-snwj Translation: 102 lion skins mA-HsA(+ Determinative F27)= lion skin St-snwj = (number) 102 3.3 mA-HsA 102 QUESTION: [ St snwi ???] fierce lions 102 ********************************************************************* 3.3 Transliteration: mA(w)-HsA(w) 102 Dissection: 1) mA-HsA - "fierce lion" 2) numberal 102 Translation: 102 fierce lions HsA is undoubtedly connected with the word for "wild" in Allen's dictionary section. 3.3 mA(w)-HsA(w) 102 mA-HsA = fierce lion 102 fierce lions 3.3 MdC: E22-H-s-sA-A-F27-100:Z4A Transliteration: mA(w) HsA(w) 100 2 mAi HsA: Fierce Lion 100 2: 200 Translation: (is) 200 fierce lions The to be verb is added in the total context of the Scarab: The amount of Lions . is 200 fierce lions 3.3 mA-HasA mskA(w) ~ 102 (amounts to) 102 lion skins. Without changing the sentence structure unduly it is slightly awkward to render this into English, if it is to be translated as one sentence. The question seems to revolve around the 'number of lions': the answer,however, is delivered as a number of 'lion skins'. For this reason I have tried to avoid using 'is' or any part of the verb 'to be': "The number of lions his majesty has slain, and which he shot himself, beginning from regnal year 1 down to year 10, (amounts to) 102 lion skins.", seemed the best option. In two sentences it might be rendered as: "His majesty has slain a number oflions which he shot himself. (There are), beginning from regnal year 1 down to year 10, 102 lion skins." Season's Greetings to you all. ==============================================================================