From: Hans van Haarst To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1998 17:19:09 +0000 Subject: Re: AEL Westcar P12/L15-16 > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:17:07 +0100 > From: Serge Rosmorduc > To: Ancient Egyptian Language List > Subject: AEL Westcar P12/L15-16 > Reply-to: Ancient Egyptian Language List > > Hi and nfr rnpt mAt n Hr nb iw=Tn m Hss imn ra nswt nTrw pAy=Tn nb nfr ! > > Due to a little tech. problem I couldn't participate on the debate on > the awfull sentence : > > ir is irt=t (or irr=t) pA iyt tp im=i > iw=i Hr snsn wTst > > There's a note in Blackman about the transliteration ir:t*t, which > refers to JEA 16,68(14). I will try to see what is said there next > friday or so, but frankly, seing the signs, it could be ir:r*t. > I would so try one more translation : > > > ir is irt=t (or irr=t) pA iyt tp im=i > iw=i Hr snsn wTst > > As what is done is that you have came to me, I am mingling in delation ? > > Some notes : if you look at the discurses of the brother, he uses the > verb "ir" a lot. Geof has made the fine remark that "pA iyt" supposes > that "iyt" is masculine, which is a late feature. Now, could this use > of ir (including in place of iy : "ir=t r Tn") be one more mark of the > low status and popular egyptian of the brother ? For the beginners, a > remark : this kind of "popular talk" appears in the captions of daily > life scenes on tomb walls, so the hypothesis is reasonable. > > with > *ir=w irr=t pA iyt tp im=i* => circumstance > iw=i Hr snsn wTst => principal clause > > the first sentence being a nominal sentence "A B" ? BTW, iw=i Hr snsn > wTst could perfectly be a circumstantial clause in good middle > Egyptian, as, if the subject is a suffix pronoun, 'iw' has practicaly > no other value in adverbial clause ; it is only there to allow the > insertion of the pronoun. > > On the other hand, you could think of another interpretation like : > As it has been done, It is because I am supposed to agree with > delation that you have come to me ? > > One more notice about this interpretation : it often pays, when a > sentence is paradoxal and tells the contrary of what you expect, to > wonder wether it is not a rhetorical question (hence the 'supposed to' > to make things clearer in previous sentence). > > > regards, > > -- > > Serge Rosmorduc, (rosmord@iut.univ-paris8.fr) > 66, rue Alexandre Dumas > 75011 Paris > tel 01 48 70 37 09 > fax 01 48 70 86 49 > http://webperso.iut.univ-paris8.fr/~rosmord/AEgypt.html > > > Dear Serge, Reconsidering these lines I have another suggestion. Conditional sentences can also be established by a nominal sDm=f in the protasis followed by the vedette ( circumstantial clause ) as apodosis. In our example the protasis is : irr=t pA iyt tp-im=i while the apodosis is : iw=i Hr snsn wTst The translation : " If you come to me, I will get involved in treason ! " What is left is ' ir.w is ' In bipartite nominal sentences like ' ra is pw ' " It is Re. " pw is sometimes left out, reducing it to ' ra is ' If we consider ' ir.w ' to be the verbal noun of the verb ' iri ' , then the translation is : " A deed indeed " ( I see ' ir is ' as wordplay ) The alternative translation : " A deed indeed : If you come to me, I will get involved in treason " BTW conditional sentences can also be represented by two mirrored sentences, containing each a nominal sDm=f ( Wechselsatz ). ' mrr=f irr=f ' " If he wishes, he will act. " Kind regards, Hans van Haarst emailadress : hans@knor.demon.nl ============================================================================== From: Aayko To: "AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk" Subject: AEL AW: AEL Illegal Winglyph copies! Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:28:21 +-100 >Especially because the price at which it is sold is extremely low compared to the quality and usefulness of the product! There is simply no other program which is able to produce a sign list of over 6,000 hieroglyphs. BTW, soon there will be even more signs available! You should simply revisit the website and order it immediately! After all, it is not a commercial program and by buying it you will help essential Egyptological research. Patrick De Smet - Rodrigues **I fetched the demo, and it really is a beautifull and well-made program!, isn't it? Like those utilities (king's names) etc. So the price is indeed not too high for such a wonderfull product, also because it of course will have a limited clientele by nature. Although I secretly wonder, whether if the price was 50% lower, one would not sell 150% more copies - seeing the number of Egyptophiles on the Net. As it is now, it will be more a tool for institutes only, and private people (read: laymen) will think twice before ordering, as $50-$75 for most is some sort of psychological (and budgetary) threshold (also in buying books and CD-Roms!). Pity one could no run a simulation on such things, see what would generate the highest cash-flow: 'high' price x 'low' quantity, or 'low' price x 'high' quantity. Just musing a bit, Aayko Eyma Is it possible to save the glyphs as .gif/.jpg for on a website f.e.? ============================================================================== From: "R Lloyd" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL G1- Re: AEL learn Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:06:08 PST I also would be interested in a multi-level learning site, although I'm sure that would cause many a headache for the web masters and contributing materials compilation. A suggestion - people who are frequenting their respective "grade levels" on the site might contribute GIFs, text, etc. This suggestion might get more of a response since people would be contributing on the same "wavelength" and not feeling as intimidated or insecure. Web Team Management might have to be established for each grade level in order to relieve web management stress from one or two people. Just a suggestion... :^) Richard Lloyd > >---------- >Van: Geoff Ponton[SMTP:danny33@danny33.demon.co.uk] >As a fellow beginner I have much sympathy with the problems of >getting going'. I have found it very difficult to memorise >hieroglyphs let alone the grammatical rules. As a teacher I know that >having to teach a subject is a good way of learning it so, somewhat >desperately, I have been trying to write for my own benefit a >textbook for beginners (not for publication!) - myself being both >teacher and student so to speak. it's a sort of 'Egyptian for >Dummies' and assumes no prior knowledge at all. I find that not only >does it help the learning process but I'm getting interested in just >how to put across the material in the most effective way. I'm using >a number of sources that are to hand, including Gardiner and very >valuable stuff from this list, plus Winglyph Demo for the >hieroglyphs. It's early days yet but I'm finding it pretty absorbing. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:40:31 -0800 From: Stephen Fryer To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL AW: AEL Illegal Winglyph copies! Aayko wrote: > Although I secretly wonder, whether if the price > was 50% lower, one would not sell 150% more > copies - seeing the number of Egyptophiles on the > Net. As it is now, it will be more a tool for institutes > only, and private people (read: laymen) will think > twice before ordering, as $50-$75 for most is some > sort of psychological (and budgetary) threshold (also > in buying books and CD-Roms!). > Pity one could no run a simulation on such things, > see what would generate the highest cash-flow: > 'high' price x 'low' quantity, or 'low' price x 'high' quantity. I have been wondering the same thing - it is hard to tell just what effect lowering the price of a product would have on the number of sales. I'm afraid I for one can't afford the price. > Is it possible to save the glyphs as .gif/.jpg for on a website f.e.? It is possible to copy the glyphs to the clip board and then past them into a graphics program. Since I have to use the demo version, which draws lines through the middle of each glyph, I have to paste them into CorelDRAW to remove the extra lines, then export them to Paint Shop Pro to save as suitable GIF files. (I might actually prefer to have WinGlyph itself rather than CorelDRAW, but I teach the latter so have no choice but to use it - I get paid to do it.) -- Stephen Fryer Lund Computer Services ************************************************** The more answers I find, the more questions I have ************************************************** ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:20:31 +0000 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk From: Tony Gist Subject: AEL Archive Is their an archive for this listserv? Tony Gist ============================================================================== From: BisnoCC Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:33:42 EST To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: AEL AW: AEL Illegal Winglyph copies! For what it's worth, I use InScribe on both Windows 3.1 and 95. It's advertised in KMT and costs around $100, I think. And even I could load it! Jay Bisno Culver City ============================================================================== From: "Mark Wilson" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:34:56 +0000 Subject: Re: AEL Archive On 15 Jan 98 at 8:20, Tony Gist wrote: > Is their an archive for this listserv? > Tony Gist Hi, Tony, Yes, simply go to the AEL homepage (address below), scroll down to near the bottom of the page and click on "archives of the list". Best wishes, -- Mark Wilson weneg@rostau.demon.co.uk http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/index.html ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:17:41 -0500 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk From: blochprint@zelacom.com (Julie Purple) Subject: AEL Correspondence Courses Hi, group I'm wondering if any of you know about any correspondence courses for hieroglyphs. I like the one I'm taking now, except that: 1. the "correspondence" part is mostly one-sided; I sent in 7 lessons before I got any response. The lessons are great, and the responses very helpful, but ... 2. Part of the last lesson of the first installment is missing, and I wrote to her about it on Dec. 26, haven't heard any response yet. I wonder if she does all the reading/answering of course material at one time, i.e., after the regular school year is over... if so, I have until whenever Spring break is to wait for the last pages of my 10th lesson. 3. The description of the course stated that there would be periodic supplementary materials sent, and so far nothing has been. I'll continue with this course I'm in if nothing better is available, but I definitely am looking around. Does anyone have any information? I just called the U.of Chicago, by the way, but nobody's answering the phone yet... I forgot that they're an hour later than here in New York. And I'm referring to New York state; unfortunately, I'm not within commuting distance of Colombia (Columbia?) University. If anybody has a telephone number, or a name, I'll be grateful. I love this e-mail group, but I need something on paper, too! Thanks, folks! Julie Julie Bloch blochprint@zelacom.com * * * (@v@) * * * ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:11:26 -0500 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk From: blochprint@zelacom.com (Julie Purple) Subject: AEL AEL: oops, forgot one part Hi, again One more thing to add to my previous posting about my present correspondence course: hardly any translating from English into Egyptian. (I'm sooooo fussy, eh? Well, I *am* paying for the course!!) Love, Julie Julie Bloch blochprint@zelacom.com * * * (@v@) * * * ============================================================================== From: barahona@lander.es To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: AEL On Dayr al-Bahri texts Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:38:21 GMT Hello friends! Do you know whether anyone have published Dayr al-Bahri temple? Anyone did it? I'm trying to find the translation of the whole text of Hatshepsut's expedition to Punt. Would you be so kind as to tell me where can I have access to? Many thanks in advance. Yours, Agustin Barahona ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:20:54 -0500 From: Raven Brooke To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL (Fwd) Adverbial Sentences - Review Hi Stephen, Thanks for something fun to work on! I'm getting a little bogged down with the vocabulary, but I have made a start-am I on the right track at all? Some of the sentences don't seem to make sense even after I've looked up the unfamiliar words; I like leafing through the dictionary, though, I could waste hours that way! 1. jw=f r smr=j He is my friend. (isn't "friend" a court title?) 2. jw Hm=f m Hr jb sn His majesty is in the sight of their hearts. 3. jw Hm=f m tp n mS` His majesty is at the head of his army. 4.jw jt jm hn` (?)ty There is barley is there, together with (?). Sorry this isn't complete, Ill send more in as I learn the vocabulary. Thanks again! Yours, Raven ============================================================================== From: "James M. Doyle" To: "'Ancient Egyptian Language List'" Subject: RE: AEL On Dayr al-Bahri texts Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:31:18 -0700 On Thursday, January 15, 1998 5:38 PM, barahona@lander.es [SMTP:barahona@lander.es] wrote: > Hello friends! > > Do you know whether anyone have published Dayr al-Bahri temple? Anyone > did it? I'm trying to find the translation of the whole text of > Hatshepsut's expedition to Punt. Would you be so kind as to tell me > where can I have access to? > > Many thanks in advance. Yours, > Agustin Barahona Yes the temple has been published by The Egypt Exploration Fund/Society. "THE TEMPLE OF DEIR EL BAHARI" By: Edouard Naville In 6 volumes First volume published 1895 Hope this information will be of help. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII James M. Doyle Necropoli di Tebe (Library of Ancient Egyptian History - A Private Collection) Phoenix, Arizona U.S.A. ==============================================================================