From: "kmotc" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" , Subject: AEL MESSAGE FOR ALLEN GLYPHSTUDY GROUP--PLEASE READ ( : Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:35:15 -0500 m Htp all, ( : We begin Lesson 6 tonight . Begin reading the lesson. Spend all week reading it , and for those of you who can, do the first half of the homework (problems 6.1-6.9), but it won't be due until two weeks from tonight on September 18. Here is the revised game plan: I have already assigned the problems to our volunteers for Lesson 6, but they will not begin sharing them till Sunday September 18, since the lists will spend one week reading and assimilating the material in Lesson 6 before we all start looking over and commenting on the homework problems. THIS COMING WEEK WE DISCUSS THE GRAMMAR IN THE LESSON IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS. In the second week of the lesson, we go over the homework as the volunteers post it. That's when you jump in with questions and comments. So a slight change, now we spend a week reading a lesson before actually discussing its homework. Since the lists have not been running over with discussion thus far, I thought maybe people were too busy covering the lessons and rushing to finish homework to participate in discussions about the grammar and problems. I hope this will prove a workable solution ( : Starting Monday the 19th you will begin to receive more mail on AEL. I am going to collate homework sent by the volunteers at a rate of 1 to 2 problems per day, with about 3 volunteers on each problem. This means you will get one email per day from me: consisting of homework problems--- Monday-Friday--- if all goes as planned. I anticipate sending my collated problems to Mark on Sunday for Monday, Monday for Tuesday etc. with the end goal being that we have gone over the week's homework on the list by the time it is actually due the following Sunday. So the list will be more active, folks will be responding to the homework problems, and asking questions on AEL. We will still be dividing up the chapters. Lesson 6 is divided in half. HERE IS THE ASSIGNMENT FOR LESSON 6 due on September 18, 2005: 6.1-6.9. ( : For those working now in previous lessons, my suggestion is to make a folder in your email program to contain all the collated sentences you can then make subfolders for each lesson, then when you get to the lesson you can have the resources ready to consult. I will also eventually collate the collations by lesson and put them up on GlyphStudy in our files section. Hope everyone is happy with this new plan. Send feedback to GlyphStudy or to me directly if you are only on AEL best, Karen ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:57:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Weben Banu Subject: Re: AEL Determinatives To: Ancient Egyptian Language List I suspect that each of those words for fire has a different connotation- a slight nuance of meaning which would make the use of one more appropriate than another, in a specific context. For instance, there is a difference between "flame" and "blaze"- both of them refer to fire, but a flame is a small fire and a blaze is a large one. I have noticed, in the ancient Egyptian pantheon, that these people tend to cover all their bases- having specific concepts and divinities to cover every important aspect of a thing, rather than having one big god to rule over the whole thing. This is probably reflected in their language, since languages do tend to reflect the culture to which they are attached; I'm sure that the ancient Egyptians would have been fond of having many different words to chose from, appropriate to specific types of circumstances. I think that would explain why you've found so many different words for "fire." As for determinatives, when used in words a determinative can sometimes have a phonetic value (in which case it is called a "phonetic determinative") *or* it can indicate the type of word which is being written (in which case it is called a "generic determinative"). When used by itself, along with a short, single dash (the dash, btw, is called a "stroke determinative"), then it is read as a ideogram meaning literally whatever that sign depicts. The determinative in question depicts a brazier with a flame emanating from it. I can not seem to find an instance of this determinative being used on its own, and the word for "brazier"- ax- seems to be written with a different determinative which looks like an ordinary brazier without any flames emanating from it at all. Perhaps some of the more experienced members of the list can tell us if they have ever seen this determinative used on its own, and if so, how they translated it.^_^ Regards, Katherine ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:46:38 -0700 From: ".JJ." To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Henu-Barque Cc: jj@lostchord.com On 9/11/05, Marie Carter wrote: > Dear JJ, > > I have think I have seen what you want on a mummy case in the Royal Ontario > Museum. It is the mummy case of Djedmaatesankh, a temple musician (c850BC). > I am sure if you let them know why you want it, they will send you an image > for your project. It is the barque like the line drawing to which you refer > with Sokar on the top, fans either side etc. > Marie Great Marie! Thank you so very much. this lead sounds logical, since the only other lead I have of the Henu-glyph is on the gilded Shrine # 3 of TutAnkhAmen , (but i don't have a real photo). I shall follow up on this, Thanks again! .JJ. ============================================================================== From: "Michael Tilgner" To: "AEL" Subject: Re: AEL Hieroglyph publications Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:23:48 +0200 Patrick McCoy wrote: > I am looking for references of publications with hieroglyphic text. Please, have a look at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/4482/EEFtexts.html Best wishes, Michael Tilgner ============================================================================== From: "Alan Woodcock" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Determinatives Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:30:44 +0200 Katherine "Weben Banu" writes > The determinative in question depicts a brazier with a > flame emanating from it. I can not seem to find an > instance of this determinative being used on its own, > and the word for "brazier"- ax- seems to be written > with a different determinative which looks like an > ordinary brazier without any flames emanating from it > at all. Perhaps some of the more experienced members > of the list can tell us if they have ever seen this > determinative used on its own, and if so, how they > translated it.^_^ > Without claiming any more experience, I read in Gardiner's sign-list that the brazier-with-flames Q7 can be used alone as an abbreviation for "srf" "temperature", two braziers alone as abbreviation for "nsrsr" in "Jw-nsrsr", a mythical locality. In these cases the character is not accompanied by the dash. The sign-list gives many other examples of such abbreviations, which I suppose could be counted as a third use of determinatives (Det. proper, ideogram, abbreviation). The determinative of "ax", curiously, does not seem to be in the Gardiner list, though "ax" is in his vocabulary. It resembles the sign R1e in Grandet & Mathieu's list, "guéridon" small table, phonetic Tt, Det. of tables, variant of R1, R2. Maybe I missed something? Best regards Alan Woodcock ============================================================================== From: "A.P.de Visser" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL Metternich stela Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:19:18 +0200 Dear members In the last issue of KMT-magazine I found a picture of this stela. I am not sure about having possibly put the question before, but anyhow : Has the hieroglyphic text on this stela been published somewhere? Regards Bram ============================================================================== From: SAINT-ANTONIN Francois 154125 To: "'AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk'" Subject: AEL Egyptian and coptic correspondance Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:41:43 +0200 Hi, Is there anywhere a table where the main equivalences between Egyptian phonemes and Coptic letters are summarized with the different possibilitis ? Sincerely, F. ===================================================================== From: SAINT-ANTONIN Francois 154125 To: "'AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk'" Subject: TR: AEL Determinatives Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:03:38 +0200 About Egyptian words with repetition of a group of phonem, does anyone know a rather systematic work listing words of that sort with their Coptic equivalent, translations, the reasons of that type of repetitions and so on. Francois ============================================================================== From: SAINT-ANTONIN Francois 154125 To: "'AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk'" Subject: AEL elephant and girafe Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:48:10 +0200 Hi Everybody, Does anyone know when the hieroglyphs representing 'elephant' and 'girafe' appeared for the very first time ? I don't know also if these animals were present onto some pre-dynastic potteries or other artifacts. Regards, Fran=E7ois ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:44:58 +0200 From: Alexander Biesbroek To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: RE: AEL Metternich stela After the initial publication by Golenischeff (1877) the text was published (hieroglyphs plus translation) by: Constantin E. Sander-Hansen, Die Texte der Metternich-Stele. (Analecta Aegyptiaca, 7). Copenhague, 1956. A few years earlier Klasens published a statue base in Leiden which in part has the same spells; he included the parallel texts of the Metternich Stela in his book: Adolf Klasens, A Magical Statue Base (Socle B=E9hague) in the Museum of Antiquities at Leiden. (Oudheidkundige Mededelingen van het Rijksmuseum van Oudheden, 33). Leiden, 1952. For these monuments see also: Nora E. Scott, The Metternich Stela, Bulletin of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, 9 (1950-1951), 201-217. Heike Sternberg-el-Hotabi, Die G=F6tterdarstellungen der Metternichstele. Ein Neuansatz zu ihrer Interpretation als Elemente eines Kontinuit=E4tsmodells, GM 97 (1987), 25-70. Hartwig Altenm=FCller, =93Der =91Socle B=E9hague=92 und ein Statuentorso in Wien=94 in: Oudheidkundige Mededelingen van het Rijksmuseum van Oudheden 46. Leiden, 1965, 10-33. Best wishes, Alexander Biesbroek ============================================================================== Subject: RE: AEL elephant and Hippo Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:05:08 -0500 From: "Littlecreek, Russell" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Hi All, I'm looking for images of Hieratic and demotic that represent 'elephant' and 'hippopotomus'. Can anyone point me to a site where I might view these, or send me an image if they have one? Thanks, Russell ============================================================================== From: "Daniel Downey" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Henu-Barque Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:14:01 -0400 Hello, I work at the Royal Ontario Museum (ROM) the web site is www.rom.on.ca. A good contact there is Gayle Gibson (email: gayleg@rom.on,ca ) a Egyptologist in the education department. She is a good friend of Djedmaatesankh (as we all are). Regards Daniel Downey Toronto, Ontario Canada ============================================================================== From: "Brian Yare" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL W8 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:06:39 +0100 Francois wrote: << > I am looking for a coloured and/or detailed image of the hieroglyph > W8. > Any reference for such things ? >> I can not immediately locate a coloured picture of this unusual hieroglyph, but the Cairo Catalogue: Grab- und Denk-steine des Mittleren Reichs by Lange and Shafer, Theil II, p. 105 has a text including the sign. The Cairo Catalogue number is 20512. This stele is NOT illustrated in Theil IV of this publication. Brian Yare ============================================================================== From: "Jakob Kimbell" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Subject: RE: AEL Egyptian and Coptic correspondances Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:02:21 +0800 The closest you may find to neat, tabulated information about the sound correspondances between Coptic and earlier Egyptian is probably Peust's . I got a copy through Eisenbraun's, although it took them a year or so to supply it; other vendors may be much more expensive. Also, Vergote's Grammaire Copte (part Ib) has a lot of this sort of information, although more or less scattered thru the text. Speaking of scattered, you could also check out G.Fecht 1960 and J.Osing 1976. --- Jakob K. Dempsey YZU, Taiwan >From: SAINT-ANTONIN Francois 154125 >Reply-To: Ancient Egyptian Language List >To: "'AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk'" >Subject: AEL Egyptian and coptic correspondance >Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:41:43 +0200 > >Hi, > >Is there anywhere a table where the main equivalences between Egyptian >phonemes >and Coptic letters are summarized with the different possibilitis ? >Sincerely, > >F. ============================================================================== From: "kmotc" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" , Subject: AEL NEW LINUX FLASHCARD PROGRAM ( : Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 19:37:06 -0500 m Htp All, I am pleased to announce another addition to our flashcard program family ( : Michele Moglia has designed us a flashcard application for Linux!!!! He has done a terrific job. http://www.mettetevicomodi.it/hieroflashcard/en_index.html So now all you Linux users will have your own flashcard program. Even if you don't use this operating system, go have a look at Michele's program and his site. Very nice Work Michele! Thanks for sharing. It will be up in Links and Listed under Vocabulary on GlyphStudy as soon as I get a chance to put it up ( : best, Karen ============================================================================== From: "kmotc" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" , Subject: AEL GLYPHSTUDY GROUP: NO QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON LESSON 6? Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:00:03 -0500 Well, we took a week to read Lesson 6, and the homework volunteers have already begun sending me next week's submissions, so you will all be seeing the homework go up during the following two weeks. What I wonder though is, did everybody just completely understand Allen's lesson the first go round? No questions or strategies to share? I hope you will all ask questions and share comments next week. ( : best all, Karen ============================================================================== From: Filip Vervloesem Subject: Re: AEL elephant and girafe Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:03:18 +0200 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Hi, the hieroglyph representing an elephant was already present among the earliest known hieroglyphic inscriptions, i.e. those in the so-called tomb U-j at the cemetery of Umm el-Qa'ab. This tomb is dated to the Naqada IIIa2-period (about 3200BC). A picture of this can be found at: http://www.student.kuleuven.be/~m0318884/U-j.pdf (it's a paper in Dutch a wrote about the hieroglyphic inscriptions in tomb U-j) Figure 4 at page 20 is an example of an inscription containing the elephant-hieroglyph on an ivory label. As for the giraffe-sing, I don't think it's already among the U-j-inscriptions, but you can always check it in Dreyer's publication (G. Dreyer, Umm el-Qaab I. Das Pr adynastische K onigsgrab U-j und seine f=FChen Schriftzeugnissen (AVDAIK 86), Mainz 1998). best regards, Filip Vervloesem Op 14-sep-05 om 09:48 heeft SAINT-ANTONIN Francois 154125 het volgende geschreven: > Hi Everybody, > > Does anyone know when the hieroglyphs representing 'elephant' and > 'girafe' > appeared > for the very first time ? > I don't know also if these animals were present onto some pre-dynastic > potteries or > other artifacts. > Regards, > > Fran=E7ois > ============================================================================== From: "kmotc" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" , Subject: AEL Nice link to site fo glyphs listed byr Gardiner signs, with MdC and transliteration Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 04:04:47 -0500 Great resource from the Rosette project. It's the catalog that I most want to point out, though there is a dictionary and other things as well. Much of the site is in French, but it has some English pages, and the catalog has an English version. I recommend this site because it has a catalog of glyphs from the Gardiner sign list that you can select from a simple pull down menu/ After you select a type : A= men and occupations, B= women , etc., it displays the glyphs in that category, and then if you hold your cursor over a particular glyph--the Computer or Manual de Codage, and also the transliteration for it, come up. http://vincent.euverte.free.fr/Rosette/index.php?Lang=E&Style=_dark&Page=4 best all Karen ============================================================================== From: "Euverte Vincent" To: "'Ancient Egyptian Language List'" , Subject: AEL Nice link to site fo glyphs listed byr Gardiner signs, with MdC and transliteration Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:28:01 +0200 Dear All, I am quite recent on the AEL, and I really appreciate what is going on here! I am pleased that our Hieroglyph Catalog may be of some use for you. As per now, it only has 760 characters, but we are now joining the EGPZ project, to distribute a 1200 character font under Unicode standards. Our catalog obviously will be expanded accordingly in the next weeks. I would like to highlight that the Rosette catalog is only a basic tool in our project. Our global objectives may be of even more interest for you : dictionary, editor, text collection, .... Please visit us and let us know how we can better answer your needs, and may be propose your own contribution. Rosette is totally free-of-rights, under GNU-GPL licence, without any subscription nor even cookies, and no ads at all ! Looking forward your visit, best regards, Vincent, alias Gardiner Site perso=A0: http://vincent.euverte.free.fr/ Forum projet Rosette=A0: http://66456.aceboard.fr/index.php?login=66456 ==============================================================================