From: KenMartins@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:37:28 EST Subject: AEL Hieroglyph Transcription and Translation To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Dear AEL List, An ushabti is pictured in the attached photos. The first shows the whole ushabti, front and back. The second is a "close-up" of the hieroglyphs. Anybody have any ideas regarding transliteration and translation? The ushabti is from the era about the 18th dynasty. http://museumsurplus.hypermart.net/temp/6617.JPG http://museumsurplus.hypermart.net/temp/6617A.JPG Best regards, Ken Martins ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:05:21 -0800 Subject: AEL Scarab Cataloguing From: Johnna Tyrrell To: AEL Listserve Hi all, I'm currently working on cataloguing the scarab collection at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art and find I need a little advisement/suggestions on research material. My biggest difficulty is deciphering the truncated, and sometimes missing, hieroglyphs. As you can imagine, I'm working with extensive king's lists, administrative and private name sources, as well as, various scarab catalogues (Keel, Wiese, Richards, Ward, Teissier, Giveon, etc.). In spite of my resources, I feel I may be missing something that would aid me further in the decipherment of; a) royal epithets; b) royal sons and daughters names; c) standard protection formulas, e.g., imn m sA; d) the pantheon. Please note, that I'm speaking about these items in regard to scarabs - small, pesky objects that provide very little space for writing a lot of information. Therefore, if any of you should know of any sources that may be of help, I would be most appreciative. If you require any additional information from me, like my working bibliography, please let me know. Thank you, Johnna Tyrrell, M.A. West Semitic Research http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/wsrp/ Inscriptifact http://www.inscriptifact.com ============================================================================== Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:28:35 +0100 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: AEL doomed prince available From: Serge ROSMORDUC Hello everybody, The tale of the Doomed Prince is available from http://www.iut.univ-paris8.fr/~rosmord/hieroglyphes/hieroglyphes.html both as pictures and as manuel de codage source. It's quite a classical Late Egyptian text. If some of you are willing to embrace ramesside modernity, it might be the moment to do so :-) regards, S. Rosmorduc ============================================================================== From: "Jose Miguel Serrano" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL HELP:ankhtifi's autobiography Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 09:51:22 +0100 Dear Paul: The first complete translation (and still useful) is : J.Vandier, Mo'alla: la tombe d'Ankhtyfy et la tombe de Sebekhotep, Cairo, 1950. See also W.Schenkel, Memphis, Herakleopolis, Theben: Die epigraphische Zeugnisse der /-11 Dynastie A"gyptens, Wiesbaden, 1965, pp. 45-57. And for a historical commentary: F.Gom=E1a, A"gypten wa"hrend die Ersten Zwischenzeit, pp. 30-41. Jose Miguel Serrano Universidad de Sevilla (Spain) ---- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Heppell" To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:18 PM Subject: AEL HELP:ankhtifi's autobiography > > HELP > > Does anyone have a complete transliteration of Ankhtifi's Autobiography, > not just the part relating to famine? I cannot find the complete story > anywhere? ============================================================================== Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 11:11:03 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Busch Subject: Re: AEL Nildjat - cat symbol To: Ancient Egyptian Language List As far as I can tell, this symbol was made up in modern times i.e. its a hoax. --- Christopher Busch wrote: > > In what documents (papyri/tombs) was the "Nildjat" > used? I don't think its listed in Gardiner's, > Budge's, or Faulkner's books. ============================================================================== From: "Thomas Sima" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Subject: AEL Egyptian origin of "Jordan"? Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:10:56 -0500 I recently read the Dictionary of Deities and Demons of the Bible's entry on "Jordan" (the river), which states that it is posited as being an Indo-European word. While the DDD editors seem confident that the second half of the word is from an Indo-European root *dan (as in Danube, Don, Dnepr, etc.), the first half is in dispute. The Hebrew is ha yarden. Is there any support for a derivation from the Egyptian itrw, "river"? In this case, the (presumably Hittite) old name for the river, "Den", would be prefixed with the Egyptian word for river to mean "the river Den". This would make sense if the river was given its name by a Semitic people emigrating from Egypt; cf. "ha y'or", the Nile. According to the DDD there is no mention of the Jordan in Egypt prior to the Nineteenth Dynasty, which is after the date of any possible "exodus". Unfortunately, Hoch does not seem to mention the place name in his Semitic Words in Egyptian Texts. ============================================================================== From: "Marianne Luban" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: RE: AEL doomed prince available Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 6:58:48 -0800 Thank you, Serge. Your efforts are much appreciated, as always. I, for one, have learned a lot from studying the texts on your site and look forward to examining this one. Quite some time ago, I wrote an ending for the story--should be in the AEL archives--but this was from reading an English translation only. Marianne Luban ============================================================================== From: "A.K. Eyma" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Egyptian origin of "Jordan"? Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:35:24 +0100 >>I recently read the Dictionary of Deities and Demons of the Bible's entry on "Jordan" (the river), which states that it is posited as being an Indo-European word. While the DDD editors seem confident that the second half of the word is from an Indo-European root *dan (as in Danube, Don, Dnepr, etc.), the first half is in dispute. **I'm surprised to hear. There were also rivers called Iardanos in Elis (Greece) and on Crete - don't know whether they link in. >>Is there any support for a derivation from the Egyptian itrw, "river"? In this case, the (presumably Hittite) **Or: Luwian >>old name for the river, "Den", would be prefixed with the Egyptian word for river to mean "the river Den". This would make sense if the river was given its name by a Semitic people emigrating from Egypt; cf. "ha y'or", the Nile. According to the DDD there is no mention of the Jordan in Egypt prior to the Nineteenth Dynasty, which is after the date of any possible "exodus". Unfortunately, Hoch does not seem to mention the place name in his Semitic Words in Egyptian Texts. ***The Jordan is only mentioned in pAn I 22:8-23:1, so time of Ramesses II. In syllabic writing, so perceived as a foreign word by the Egyptians. Aayk Eyma ============================================================================== From: "Maxim Lebedev" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Subject: AEL Nubaian "lands": irT.t and... (=?koi8-r?Q?=3F?=) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:29:31 +0300 Dear List-members, In his translation of Harhuf s second trip to Yam J.H. Breated writes: His majesty sent me a second time alone; I went forth upon the Elephantine road, and I descended from Irthet, Mekher, Tereres, Irtheth, being an affair of eight months .(Ancient Records of Egypt. Part I, 328ff ) Well, I m interested in these Irthet and Irtheth . What is the transliteration of these lands? I guess we have irT.t and irT.T, but I do not have the text unfortunately+ Thank you in advance. Best regards, Maksim ============================================================================== Subject: AEL pyramid texts - U226 To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:30:21 -0500 (EST) From: deab@slack.net (DEAB) Dear list, I have been working through the pyramid texts (Unas only) for some time and I am realizing that I have questions on just about every utterance I have completed. I'd like to start with what I think is the beginning of the Unas text - utterance 226. Below is a Manuel de Codage version of the utterance created from the Piankoff photographs (_The Pyramid of Unas_). I can't quite understand how Faulkner, Mercer, and Piankoff came up with some of the translations that they did. My questions specifically are: Mercer, Piankoff and Faulkner all use the word 'when' in the transition between line 1 and 2 of my MdC text. Is this just a random addition to provide some kind on continuity? I think the T-w of the final line is a dependent pronoun but wasn't sure of the rule in that case? Any help or suggestions appreciated. Thank you, Daniel Burnham ---- (Note the verbs listed on the right side are not meant to be a proper pronunciation - just a personal way to remember the Manuel de Codage of a particular verb.) Utterance 226 D-xrw Sn-n n-a-w-I14C-Z1 i-n n-a-w-I14C-Z1 (sDm.f - Shen) Sn-n b-H-bH-z-E3 (sDm.f - Shen) x-xA-m b-S-w pr-r m H-z-p-N24 tA (sDm.f - Kham) i-a-m-n k pr-r-t i-m k (sDm.n.f - Iam) h-i-w s-sD-r-Q18 z-b-n (Imperative - Sedjer and Zeben) x-r-D287 V18 p-s-D-t-G7 m mw (sDm.f - Kher) H-f-Aw-I14C p-n-a-P13\t2 (Imperative - Pena) mA-ir-A.T-w ra-G7 (Maira) (T-w = dependent pronoun?) Burnham: Recite: The Nau-serpent is circled by the Nau-serpent. The Behez-calf is circled. The Beshew-spittle condenses and emerges in the garden of Earth. You consumed the emergence therein you. Hiu-fiend, be at rest! Reverse! The Za of the divine Pesdjet falls in the primordial waters. Hefau-serpent, overturn! [The divine Ra sees you.]? Faulkner (page 53): One snake is enveloped by another when is enveloped the toothless calf which came forth from the pasture. O Earth, swallow up what went forth from you; O Monster, lie down, crawl away. The Majesty of the Pelican has fallen into the water; O snake, turn round, for Ra sees you. Piankoff (Page 95): A serpent is entwined by a serpent, when a young hippopotamus coming on the pasture is entwined. Earth, swallow what comes out of thee! Monster, lie down, glide away! The majesty of the pelican falls in water. Serpet, turn over that Ra may see thee! Mercer (page 70): To say: One serpent is encircled by another serpent, when a toothless (?) calf born on pasture land is encircled. Earth, devour that which has come forth from thee. Monster, lie down, glide away. A servent (holy person) who belongs to the Ennead (pelican) is fallen in water. Serpent, turn over that Ra may see thee. ============================================================================== Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 13:47:19 +0100 (CET) From: Luca Peretti To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.org.uk Hi! I'm Hrwy I would like to know the varied ways with which the Egyptians greeted. Thank you Hrwy hrwy87@yahoo.it ============================================================================== Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 01:36:14 -0600 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Jerome Colburn Subject: AEL Sinuhe JC-21, JC-22 Sorry to have gotten away from Sinuhe for so long... you weren't all waiting for me, were you? :-( To what the Marks, Jenny, Stephen, and Brigitte have done with JC-15 through 20, I can think of nothing to add except a remark on the possible sense of B67-68 as parsed by Lichtheim: swA TAy.w Hm.wt Hr rnn.wt im=f, "men outdo women as regards rejoicing over him": Any new Pharaoh, full of promise, is the biggest male superstar in all Egypt, so it is only to be expected that women would be enthusiastic about him. Senwosre's special achievement may be that he's brought their husbands on board as well. Be that as it may, here are the next two segments, which seem considerably easier: (JC-21) Dd.n=f xft=i He said to me: xr Hm km.t nfr.t nt.t srx.t rwD=f "Therefore indeed Egypt is happy, which is informed of his prosperity. mk tw aA wnn=k Hna=i Behold, you, a great one, you are with me, ("you are great" would have required a stative, aA.ti) nfr ir.t=i n=k good is what I do for you." rdi.n=f wi m HA.t Xrd.w=f He set me as the foremost of his children, mni.n=f wi m sA.t=f wr.t he married me to his eldest daughter, rdi.n=f stp=i n=i m xAs.t=f he made me choose for myself from his country m stp.w n wn.t Hna=f from the choice things of what was with him Hr tAS=f n k.t xAs.t on his border with another country. (JC-22) tA pw nfr iAA rn=f It is a good country whose name is (?)Yarar(?), iw dAb.w im=f Hna iArr.w.t figs are in it, along with grapes, wr n=f irp r mw it has more wine than water, aA bi.t=f aSA bAq=f much is its honey, abundant is its moringa oil, dqr.w nb Hr x.wt=f every fruit is on its trees, iw it im Hna bd.t there is barley in it, along with emmer, nn Drw mnmn.wt nb.t there is no limit to the cattle of all kinds. ********************************** * Jerome Colburn * jcolburn@soltec.net * im nfr mdw pn m bAH mryw mdw-nTr * Today's Egyptian date at http://www.soltec.net/~jcolburn/ ********************************** Jerome Colburn jcolburn@soltec.net ============================================================================== From: "MarkVygus" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Sinuhe JC-21, JC-22 Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 19:29:48 -0000 Jerome, good to see Sinuhe on the go again. I admit, I was waiting to see if anyone else (ie newbies) would give it a go. Seems they are all too frightened ? I'll look the web pages again, and do some more over the weekend. mark ============================================================================== From: "Jenny Carrington" To: "AEL" Subject: Re: AEL Sinuhe JC-21, JC-22 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 08:22:56 +1100 Hi Jerome, You wrote: mk tw aA wnn=k Hna=i Behold, you, a great one, you are with me, ("you are great" would have required a stative, aA.ti) I think you missed the determinative after aA. The N31 makes it the word "here". "Behold, you are here, you are with me." m Htp Jenny ============================================================================== Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 10:37:10 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Busch Subject: Re: AEL pyramid texts - U226 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From Sethe's copy of Utt226: http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/eos/eos_page.pl?DPI=100&callnum=PJ1553.A1_1908_cop3&object=140 I think Pelican is a mistranslation, Ennead is meant. The second half clearly refers to the story of defeating Apophis by the Ennead while Ra sails in his bark. Here is my English translation: Utt 226 Recite: Encirclement of serpent by serpent.* Encicled calf who's collapsed placenta is birthed and buried in the garden. Ascend** and be fixed to your procession, there in the Apophis monster will be bound securely while your sleepful night glides away. Enemy protection by the royal Ennead while over water, the miserable snake will be turned upside down for you by the royal Ra. *A loop of snakes biting their tails is a representation of the cycle of life. **Refers to the placenta. I think this might be said after a birth of a calf and is a prayer for the placenta. Here how I translated it: Utt 226 S43-I10 recitation: Snw V7-N35-(D12) encircled n of naw N35-D36-G43-I14 Z1 serpent in M17-N35 by naw N35-D36-G43-I14 Z1 serpent Snw V7-N35-(D12) encircled bHs-E3 calf x placenta xAm bent (think of crumpled) bSw D58-N37-G43-(D26-Z2) vomit, spittle (reference to the process of after birthing) pr-r O1-D21 go out (downward) m in Hsp V28-O34-Q3-N24 garden tA N16 country (Very graphic, no doubt they were farmers!) ia M17-D36 ascend mn be fixed to k your pr-r-t O1-D21-X1 procession im M17-G17 there in k your hiw monster s it M37 bind together r concerning A55 sleepful night sbn O34-D58-N35 glide away xrw x-r-A15 enemy V18 protection psDt Ennead (of gods) G7 royal m over mw water HfAw V28-I9-F40-G43-I15 snake pna Q3-N35-D36-P1 turn upside down mAir miserable* A (enclitic particle)* Tw you ra N5 Ra (sun god) G7 royal *I believe this refers to the snake Apophis. Normally spelled as: U1-G1-M17-D21-T12-G37 ============================================================================== From: "MarkVygus" To: "AEL" Subject: AEL Sinuhe Berlin 75 - 92 Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:37:11 -0000 I differ in a couple of places from Jerome, so any comments from you lurkers would be helpful. I have taken iArrt (grapes) and mnmnt (cattle) as collective nouns, so have not transliterated as plurals. Berlin 3022 B75 cont.) Dd .n =f xft =i xr Then he said to me, Now B76) Hm kmt nfrt ntt srxt rwD =f indeed Egypt is happy, that one knows (knowing that) he is prosperous B77) mk tw aA wnn =k Hna =i nfr irt =i n =k Behold you are here, you shall stay with me, I shall do good for you B78) rdi .n =f wi m-HAt Xrdw =f mni .n =f He placed me at the head of his children, he married B79) wi m sAt =f wrt rdi .n =f stp =i n =i m xAst =f me to his eldest daughter. He allowed me to choose for myself of his land B80) m stpw n wnt Hna =f Hr tAS =f n from the choiciest (part) that was his on his border with B81) kt xAst tA pw nfr iAA rn =f iw dAbw another land. It is a beautiful land whose name is Yaa. Figs are B82) im =f Hna iArrt wr n =f irp r mw aA in it together with grapes. It has more wine than water, abundant B83) bit =f aSA bAq =f dqrw nb Hr xtw =f is its honey, plentiful is its moringa oil. Every (type of) fruit is upon its trees. B84) iw it im Hna bdt nn Drw mnmnt Barley is there together with emmer, there is no limit to every type of cattle. (every nbt on line 85) B85) nbt aA grt dmi r =i m ii n mr.tw Now much accrued to me as a consequence of the love of B86) =i rdit =f wi m HqA wHyt m stp me. He placed me as Chief of the tribe in the best part B87) n xAst =f ir .n =i aqw m mint irp of his land. Loaves were made for me daily, wine B88) m-Xrt-hrw iwf ps(i) Apd was daily fare, cooked meat, roast fowl ( roast ASr on line 89) B89) m ASr Hrw awt xAst iw grg as well as the desert-game (that they had ) snared B90) .n =i iw wAH n =i Hrw inw n Tsmw for me, and set it down before me in addition to the catch of my hounds B91) =i iw irt .n =i ....................... aSAw irTt m many ................. were made for me, cooked milk dishes (cooked pfst line 92) first part B92) pfst nbt of every type mark vygus ============================================================================== From: "A.K. Eyma" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL Kom Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 11:26:19 +0100 I've a little question I thought an AEL subcriber may know an anwer to, even though it is slightly para-topic. I've a debate with someone about the origin of the element 'kom' in (modern) Egyptian place names like Kom el Hisn etc. He claims it has an ancient origin, and that it entered the (Arabic-)Egyptian language from the Coptic word for "village". He refers to Shaw & Nicholson, British Museum Dictionary of Ancient Egypt, BCA: 153, under the heading Kom, which would say that it is a word that has entered the Arabic language from the Coptic. (I could not check the verbatim quote) Now if I look in a Coptic dictionary, there is no such word. The Coptic for village is _time_ (of course from AE _dmy_). So the only thing I could think of is that Shaw had the Greek word _ko:me:_ (settlement) in mind, which would then via Coptic have gone into Egyptian Arabic. But the fact it is not in e.g. Crum's dictionary as a loan seems to make that unlikely. The opinion I find much more likely is that colloquial Egyptian Arabic kom is just Classical Arabic kawm, from kawwama (root KWM): "to heap, pile, stack up". So Kom ("Heap") is just the colloquial Egyptian equivalent of Tell. Any thoughts on this? I would need the opinion of a Coptic or Arabic expert or of a reputable Egyptological source to begin to convince my 'sparring' partner that Shaw is in error. Although if you want to prove me wrong that is fine as well ;) kind regards, Aayko Eyma ============================================================================== From: "Jenny Carrington" To: "AEL" Subject: AEL Egyptian Greetings Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 14:59:18 +1100 Hi Hrwy, Egyptian Greetings, ref: Gardiner, 'Egyptian Grammar'. m Htp nfr wrt G17 R4:t*p F35 f:r G36 r:t "in very good peace" Greeting at the beginning of a letter acknowledging a despatch from a king. (Sinuhe B205) ii.ti n=i M18 M17 Z4:D54 U33 M17 n A40 "welcome to me" (lit: you have come to me) iw m Htp M18 G43 G17 R4:t*p "come in peace" (welcome) ii.wy M18 M17 D54 G43 Z4 "welcome" snb.t(i) sp2 nDs r pr=k s n:b t O50:Z4 n:D O34:G37 A1 r O1:Z1 k "Farewell, farewell, good fellow, to your home." and the common expression: anx(w) wDA(w) snb(w) S34 U28 S29 "may you live, be prosperous and healthy" Addressing letters: dd [...] n nbt pr [...] D36:D36 [...] n V30:t O1 [...] "[name] gives (this) to the lady of the house [name]" Beginning letters: swDA ib pw n s Z7 U28 A Y1v ib:Z1 p w n "It is a communication to ..." (lit: It is an easing of the heart to ...) ......Dd n ...... [...] I10:D46 n [...] [name] speaks to [name] Ending letters: nfr sDm=k F35 f:r F21 G17 k "May your hearing be good." and again we have: m Htp nfr wrt "in very good peace" m Htp (in peace) Jenny ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 05:44:17 -0600 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Jerome Colburn Subject: AEL Sinuhe JC-23, JC-24 aA grt dmi.t r=i m ii n mr(w).t=i Great, moreover, was what accrued to me as a result of the love of me, r di.t=f wi m HqA wHy.w m stp n xAs.t=f until he set me as chief of his family in the choice part of his country. [thanks to Mark Vygus for interpretation of stp] ir n=i aq.w m min.t Provisions were made for me in daily rations, irp (*1) m Xr.t-hrw wine in a daily allowance, i(w)f ps Apd m ASr Hrw-r (*2) aw.t xAs.t cooked poultry in roasts, as well as wild game. [I wouldn't think that iw grg.tw n=i, with no resumptive object pronoun, could serve as a virtual relative clause modifying aw.t xAs.t, as required by Mark's interpretation.] iw grg.tw n=i Hunting was done for me, iw wAH.t n=i Hrw-r in.w n Tsm.w=i what was laid down was mine as well as what my hounds retrieved. [wAH.t must be a noun, otherwise there's nothing for Hrw-r to join to in.w.] ir.t(w) n=i aSA.w irt.t (*3) m (*4) ps.t nb.t There was produced for me much milk in all kinds of cooking. (*1) Hieroglyphic transcription has just been fixed to show W7 (presumably for W23) here instead of W24, but Blackman shows W22. (*2) Aa19:N31 missing in hieroglyphic transcription here. (*3) Blackman shows W23 here instead of the admittedly more to be expected W20 in the hieroglyphic transcription. (*4) Blackman doesn't show the A1 that's in the hieroglyphic transcription here. (JC-24) ir.n=i rnp.wt aSA.wt I spent many years, Xrd.w=i xpr m nxt.w my children became strong people, s nb m dAir wHy.t=f each one in control of his (own) clan. wpw.ty xdd xnt r Xnw Ab=f Hr=i The messenger coming and going to the Residence, he waited for me, iw sAb=i rmT.w nb.t I made everyone wait. iw=i di=i mw r ib I gave water to the thirsty man, rdi.n=i tnm Hr wA.t I put the straying man on the (right) road, nHm.n=i awA I took away the robber. sty.w wA r Stm r sxsf-a (*1) The Bedouin were far from hostility, from opposition; HqA.w=xAs.wt DAsi.n=i (*2) Sm.t=sn the rulers of foreign countries, I contested their passage. (*1) "(sic)" in Blackman for expected xsf-a, see Faulkner s.v. xsf-a. (*2) "(sic)" in Blackman for expected DAis.n=i, see Faulkner s.v. DAis. ********************************** * Jerome Colburn * jcolburn@soltec.net * im nfr mdw pn m bAH mryw mdw-nTr * Today's Egyptian date at http://www.soltec.net/~jcolburn ********************************** Jerome Colburn jcolburn@soltec.net ============================================================================== From: Michael-Tilgner@t-online.de (Michael Tilgner) To: "AEL" Subject: Re: AEL pyramid texts - U226 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 13:49:01 +0100 Dear Daniel, > I have questions on just about every utterance the pyramid texts belong to the difficult texts of AE; they have been discussed for decades and the interpretations are still a long way from each other. Despite countless efforts, many details remain unclear. HWB = Rainer Hannig, Handwoerterbuch Aegyptisch-Deutsch [Concise Dictionary Egyptian-German], Mainz, 1995 Edel = Elmar Edel, Altaegyptische Grammatik [Old Egyptian Grammar], 2 vols., Roma, 1955- - the only OE grammar, unfortunately in German Now to Utterance 226 (corrections marked by _..._; some placements marks are added) D&md Dd mdw "words to speak" = recite: Sn:n-n:a-w-I14C:Z1-i-n-n:a-w-I14C:Z1 Sn naw in naw one snake is encircled by (another) snake Sn:n b-H-bH:z-E3 x-xA-_A_ b-_bH_-w [A, not m; bH, no: S] Sn bHz xAb.w encircling a toothless calf bHs xAbw "*a suckling calf (without teeth)" (HWB, p. 582) pr:r m H-z:p:N24 pr m Hsp (which) came forth from the pasture tA i-a-m n:k tA i.am n=k O Earth, swallow (for you) am "to swallow" imperative of 2-lit. verbs have a prothetic i. (Edel, paragraph 600; see also Gardiner, Egyptian Grammar, paragraph 336, 3ae inf.) emphasizing the imperative by a dativus commodi, here: n=k "for you" (Edel, paragraph 619; Gardiner, paragraph 337, 2) pr:r:t i-m-k pr.t im=k what went forth from you h-i-w s-_M37_:r-_A55_ z-b-n [the sign in question is M37: Old Egyptian form of M36 Dr; the following one is a variant of A55, not Q18] hiw sDr sbn O Monster, lie down (and) crawl away! hiw "monster, snake; ass" (HWB, p. 489) The imperative of 3-lit. verbs do not have a prothetic i. (Edel, paragraph 603) x:r-_D54\r1_ _U36_ p-s-D&t-G7 m mw [I replaced D287 by a rotated D54; V18 by U36] xr Hm psD.t(i) m mw The Majesty of the Pelican has fallen into the water psD.ti "pelican (pelicanus spec.)" Hm psD.ti "pelican" (HWB, p. 296) This is indeed a pelican as can be seen from the similar utterance 293 where psD.ti has a pelican as a determinative. http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/eos/eos_page.pl?DPI=100&callnum=PJ1553.A1_19 08_cop3&ident=227 H-f:Aw-I14 p:n:a-_P1A_ [the sign is a variant of P1A] HfAw pna O snake, turn round, mA:ir-A T-w ra-G7 mA Tw ra (that) Re may see you Tw dependent pronoun 2nd masc sing (Edel, paragraph 166), also in ME (Gardiner, paragraph 43) This is a magical spell against snakes. The first part may be an allusion to a magical situation; the newborn calf is a symbol of Re. Then the spell is directed to the Earth: the snake should return to its hole. In the third part the snake is addressed: Lie down, crawl away! (Otherwise?) the snake may have the same destiny as the Majesty of the Pelican (Osiris?). Now there is a change in the line of thinking: The snake should not disappear but turn around so that Re may see its stomach. Best wishes, Michael Tilgner ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 11:22:23 -0600 From: "Nicole B. Hansen" To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL Kom Even if there were a Coptic or Greek word with such a meaning, the word "kom" is a perfectly good Arabic word and therefore it might be difficult to determine what the origin of a name is. However, I think what is more telling is that many of the "kom" place names are compounded with other perfectly good Arabic words and therefore they are more likely to be ancient Egyptian in origin. On the other hand, there are numerous place names in Egypt today that are derived from ancient Egyptian. And in some cases they have been reinterpreted with a pseudo-Arabic etymology. For example, the name Abu Sir is used for about 3 or 4 places in Egypt today, being a combination of the Arabic word "Abu" meaning "Father" and "Sir" which has no meaning in Arabic. However, we know this comes from ancient Egyptian meaning the Place of Osiris- bw wsir. There are also a lot of other names that are ancient in origin-Damanhur, Asyut, Aswan-to name a few well-known examples. Place names tend to be one of the most resilient to change. In America for example many of the place names are Indian or Spanish in origin even though those languages fell completely out of use in the areas in question. So in short, I would say that you are most likely right about "kom" but there are plenty of other place names in modern Egypt that do come from ancient Egyptian. Nicole B. Hansen Ph.D. candidate, Egyptology, University of Chicago Cairo, Egypt ==============================================================================