From: Aayko Eyma To: 'Ancient Egyptian Language List' Subject: RE: AEL Aton Hymn Col X - line 35c Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 15:05:13 +0200 Hi all, While reading a DeM article (Village Voices p.35), I noticed that during a debate on the meaning of rwD, the author quotes one line of our Hymn as an example: wbn=k anx=sn rwD=sn n=k The author says that rwD tends to appear as paralell to anx (to live) and mn (to be durable), and that the most likely translation is "to be wholly sound" (sound of body and soul; of people) and "to be durable" (of materials). In a love poem, it is said "it is her love that caused me to be....[rwD]" , i.e. we would say: the love gave him strenght/stamina. Note Jerome had rwD, while I had rd (rwD) - both are written alike, see HWB 463 ("fest sein", "bestaendig seien") and HWB 481 ("(auf)wachsen"). I picked the latter because of the "(breast-)feeding" in the previous line, i.e. the gift of (new) life plus the ability to grow and prosper in life. But perhaps the present line means "give life" + "give the potential to maintain that given life" (i.e. give health, durability). Don't know which option to choose. kind regards, Aayko Eyma ============================================================================== From: Aayko Eyma To: 'Ancient Egyptian Language List' Subject: AEL Yotne Hymn col XII Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:00:03 +0200 Thanks, Jerome, for posting the remainder! XII [39c) - 40b)] 40c) iw=k m ib=i "You are in my heart." 40d)-41a) nn wn ky rx tw wp(w)-Hr sA=k nfr-xpr.w-ra wa-n-ra 41b) di=k sSA=f m sxr.w=k m pH.ty=k "(But) there is no other who (truly) knows you except for your son Neferkheperure Wanre, The one whom you have given his expertise in your councils and in your power." Lit. "There is not another, a knower of you, except..." Likely: "no other 'expert' in you (Aton)" cf. HWB475, so only the king has true knowledge about the god, is the intermediary; so even though a common believer like our writer may have the god in his heart, he would not dare to be so presumptuous as to bypass the royal Aton-ologist! wpw-Hr - HWB 191 (written a bit differently here) sSA is alternative to SsA, see HWB 834 rDi SsA m = kundig sein lassen in, HWB834 di=k is perfective relative form, I think. sxr either "plan, council" or "nature, being" HWB748 m pH.ty is not likely "by your power" I feel, context-wise. 41c-42a) xpr tA Hr a=k mi irr=k sn 42b) wbn.n=k anx=sn Htp=k m(w)t=sn "The land/earth comes into existence under your supervision, in accordance with the way you have made them, When you have risen, they live, and when you have set, they die." Hr-a and Hr-awy can mean "immediately" HWB121/549, but I do not think that fits with the added =k, Jerome. That points at preposition, not adverb, so I prefer Hr-awy "in der Verantwortung von, under der Aufsicht von" HWB549. I do not think "by/from your hand" is possible. Apparantly we have the daily 'creation' here ("comes"), that is in accord with the original big creation in the past ("have made")? irr seems imperfective [nominal] sDm=f to me, "your making of them", "the manner cq way that you made them". sDm.n=f ...sDm.n=f, twice imperfective perfect, is a 'mirror sentence, "like....so..", "and...and.." 42c) ntk aHa(w) r-Ha.w=k 42d) anx.tw im=k "You are Lifetime yourself, one (only) lives because of you!" I agree that Ha.w *nb is a sensible option. However, does that fit with the r? So I picked r-Ha.w=[] "self" HWB512 anyhow. Apparantly the idea is: Aton is Life itself, the only one having life by himself, the rest derives life from him. "to live in you" is perhaps too much a Christian phrase; hence "by you/through you/via you" or something similar. kind regards, Aayko Eyma ============================================================================== Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:25:37 +0200 From: Richard Watson Subject: AEL WinGlyph To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Hi, I have just one easy question: Can WinGlyph translate hieroglyphic signs? Or can you get it to translate transliterations? I'm knew at WinGlyph. From, Richard Watson ============================================================================== From: TAlexanderGirls@aol.com Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 18:04:49 EDT Subject: Re: AEL WinGlyph To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk CC: cleopatra7@egypt.net I think it translates into hierogliphics i've not been fully excepted into the AEL so i'm not that sure. Bye bye Cleopatra ============================================================================== To: Ancient Egyptian Language List Subject: Re: AEL WinGlyph From: Serge Rosmorduc Date: 06 May 2000 13:19:15 +0200 Richard Watson writes: > --- See http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ for AEL resources. > --- Copyright in the following belongs to the undersigned. > --- To reply privately, send to vtwatson@mweb.co.za > > Hi, > > I have just one easy question: > > Can WinGlyph translate hieroglyphic signs? Or can you get it to > translate transliterations? > I'm {k}new at WinGlyph. No. The purpose of winglyph is to allow the typesetting of hieroglyphic texts. > > From, > Richard Watson > > -- Serge Rosmorduc -- http://webperso.iut.univ-paris8.fr/~rosmord/AEgypt.html ============================================================================== From: "vic.simpson" To: "Ancient Egyptian List" Cc: Subject: AEL Buying Glyph for Windows -any problems? Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 09:13:51 +0100 Maybe a couple of weeks ago I ordered: "Special Offer 1: Glyph for Windows + Extended Library + Hieroglyphica" at the CCER web site because I liked the demo version of the program. I expected to receive a confirmation of my order from that site as part of a standard protection against malicious orders. I was concerned at not getting this so on or around 3May I sent an email to CCER asking for confirmation of receipt but have yet to get a reply. I do understand from the site that delivery may be up to one month after ordering but I don't understand why the standard business courtesy of confirmation of receipt of order is not done. May I ask here if anybody has succeeded in obtaining a copy of Glyph for Windows recently? Can it be the case that the CCER web site is effectively 'dead' and that sale of Glyph has ceased? I apologise for raising this mundane matter here. Please help me if you can. Regards, Vic Simpson ============================================================================== From: "Patrick De Smet - Rodrigues" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: RE: AEL WinGlyph Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 16:41:03 +0200 Dear Richard, For all information re WinGlyph (and much more...) see the web site of the Centre for Computer-aided Egyptological Research at Utrecht University (the Netherlands): www.ccer.nl. WinGlyph is a text *editor* for hieroglyphs, transliteration and translation, but it is the *user* who has to input all the data using the encoding system of the "Manuel de codage/Encoding Manual" (see also the CCER web site for that). The program "interprets" these codes to *draw* --either on the screen or on a printout-- hieroglyphic signs, transliteration and translation (which you have to type in yourself!). So don't expect the program to *translate* hieroglyphics or transliteration for you --even egyptologists have problems doing that, so how on earth could any computer program translate such complicated texts... ;-) No, seriously, of course there are programs that are indeed capable of translating one language into another (more or less successfully...), but the Ancient Egyptian language in combination with its unique writing system contains too many variables and parameters to make this possible. Best wishes, Patrick De Smet - Rodrigues udjat@skynet.be Udjat, Eye in the Sky > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk > [mailto:owner-AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk]On Behalf Of Richard Watson > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 12:26 PM > To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk > Subject: AEL WinGlyph > > > --- See http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ for AEL resources. > --- Copyright in the following belongs to the undersigned. > --- To reply privately, send to vtwatson@mweb.co.za > > Hi, > > I have just one easy question: > > Can WinGlyph translate hieroglyphic signs? Or can you get it to > translate transliterations? > I'm knew at WinGlyph. > > From, > Richard Watson > > ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:17:56 +1000 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: mlds Subject: Re: AEL Buying Glyph for Windows -any problems? >May I ask here if anybody has succeeded in obtaining a copy of Glyph for >Windows recently? Can it be the case that the CCER web site is effectively >'dead' and that sale of Glyph has ceased? I have had recent email correspondence with Hans van den Berg (CCER), over a hard disk crash there that has required some effort to rectify. Hans mentioned the ongoing work on WinGlyph. He is very committed to improving it and it is definetely for sale. While the CCER does sell things, it is not primarily a business, and is run by egyptologists. I suggest contacting Hans directly would help sort this matter out. Regards, Mike Dyall-Smith Melbourne, Australia ============================================================================== Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 11:51:01 +0100 To: Ancient Egyptian Language List From: Robert Agar-Hutton Subject: Re: AEL WinGlyph In message , Patrick De Smet - Rodrigues writes Hi Patrick (and All), > No, seriously, of >course there are programs that are indeed capable of translating one >language into another (more or less successfully...), but the Ancient >Egyptian language in combination with its unique writing system contains too >many variables and parameters to make this possible. I rarely post to this list because I am a complete beginner and due to lack of time am making virtually no progress at the moment.... However I do know a little about computer programming and you are incorrect in your assumption that it would not be possible to translate from Egyptian Difficult - YES Requiring a degree of manual intervention - POSSIBLY But given sufficient resources (Time, Money, Access to People with knowledge about the subject) it is completely possible to write such a program. All the best -- Robert Agar-Hutton. ============================================================================== From: "vic.simpson" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: Re: AEL Buying Glyph for Windows -any problems? Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:36:00 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "mlds" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" > I have had recent email correspondence with Hans van den Berg (CCER), over > a hard disk crash there that has required some effort to rectify. Hans > mentioned the ongoing work on WinGlyph. He is very committed to improving > it and it is definetely for sale. While the CCER does sell things, it is > not primarily a business, and is run by egyptologists. > > I suggest contacting Hans directly would help sort this matter out. > > Regards, Mike Dyall-Smith Many thanks for the suggestion. I have come up with two email addresses -not related to CCER- with an element in common which strongly suggest they may be associated with Hans. If, as you suggest, communications at the CCER site are down it probably would be worth sending an exploratory email to each in order to establish contact outside the CCER site. If that fails, I will telephone CCER directly. It was civil of you to volunteer this information and I am indebted to you. Regards, Vic Simpson ============================================================================== From: "Brigitte Ouellet" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Subject: AEL thought on translation Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:08:42 -0400 Dear list members, IMHO, even with the best computering knowledge, I tend to agree, there are too many variables in Ancient Egyptian languages as well as writings to hope for even an average translator. I, for one, would not honestly risk a translation on it and anyone who has already work with these kind of translators can agree that results can be quite catastrophic sometime, even as simple as translating from English to French.... Imagine with ancient Egyptian language!!!! Between us all, on one hand, I wish it could sometimes when I feel hopless in front of a text... But on the other hand, I guess I would really start wondering about what translating means! A program can be of help as a TOOL but, I do not think it would replace the persons who tries to figure out the meanings and significations of a discourse. Do not forget that the one who is looking at a text is not simply a translator but should be an HERMENEUT. Best Regards to all, Brigitte Ouellet Societe pour l'Etude de l'Egypte ancienne Chapitre de Montreal C.P. 49022, Succ, Versailles Montreal, Qc H1N 3T6 CANADA tel/fax: 514-353-4674 http://www.geocities.com/ssea.geo/montreal.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Agar-Hutton" To: "Ancient Egyptian Language List" Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 6:51 AM Subject: Re: AEL WinGlyph | --- See http://www.rostau.demon.co.uk/AEgyptian-L/ for AEL resources. | --- Copyright in the following belongs to the undersigned. | --- To reply privately, send to robert@winghigh.demon.co.uk | | In message , Patrick De | Smet - Rodrigues writes | | Hi Patrick (and All), | | > No, seriously, of | >course there are programs that are indeed capable of translating one | >language into another (more or less successfully...), but the Ancient | >Egyptian language in combination with its unique writing system contains too | >many variables and parameters to make this possible. | | I rarely post to this list because I am a complete beginner and due to | lack of time am making virtually no progress at the moment.... | | However I do know a little about computer programming and you are | incorrect in your assumption that it would not be possible to translate | from Egyptian | | Difficult - YES | Requiring a degree of manual intervention - POSSIBLY | | But given sufficient resources (Time, Money, Access to People with | knowledge about the subject) it is completely possible to write such a | program. | | All the best | | -- | Robert Agar-Hutton. | ============================================================================== From: "Stirling Twilight" To: AEgyptian-L@rostau.demon.co.uk Subject: AEL Help! I need a translation! Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 17:19:25 EDT Hello everyone, I'm up to my beginners elbows in the Shawabti of Amenemhet (BM EA 188) and was wondering if anyone knew of a source for a translation. Or, failing that, a translation for the shawabti formula. I don't want to cheat, I just would like to make sure I'm getting it right. Anyone? Thanks in advance, Pattie ==============================================================================